The Delusion of Being Good

[Kid Icarus]

Lovely post. What I wrote was hyperbole. Note, I also said "or your town" which is also known as ironic since no one takes towns by storm. It may have been a dumb post but clearly not dumb enough for you. I'll try dumbing it down more next time just for you.

No, your core argument blows and I'm going to tell you why it blows. Lots of people can love your music and you still won't take the "world" by storm. You should have said that one can achieve hometown hero status by writing good songs, being social with their fans, and looking out for other musicians in the community. But you had to take the long, hard road

[Blackwatch]

Man....I had no idea that this subject would hit the nerve that it did 7,000 hits ago. Just to keep things focused I went to the dictionary to find the definition of good. I did this a lot in college as there are quite a few words that we take for granted as far as the meanings go. The definition in the Oxford english dictionary is:

good

• adjective (better, best) 1 to be desired or approved of. 2 having the required qualities; of a high standard.

So, by the very definition of the word to be good, you have to be desired and you have to have high standards and qualities...I would imagine as compared to others that you are using as quantifiers of what is good.
So I imagine that you could still be good and just play alone in your room as long as you had the required qualities of a high standard.
And in the same respect you could play nothing more than white noise but have the crowd wild about you making you desired and approved of....

[richardmac]

And the definition of delusion is a false belief or opinion. Part of the thing that makes art (in this case, music) very interesting is that it's so hard to nail it down. Anyone who has ever put out their own CD will tell you that they think their music is good. Well, almost everyone will tell you that. Artists are probably not the best judge of their own work. Who, then? Experts? No... the "critics" are notorious for panning stuff that millions of people love. The general masses? No... because crowds don't have fantastic opinions (example - McDonalds.) Who, then?

 

We have basic rules in music that we do expect people to follow - instruments should be in tune, for example. Singers should sing on key. But there are notable exceptions to even these rules.

 

I honestly believe that just about any music that at least follows the basic rules will be called "good" by SOMEONE out there. Somewhere there's an audience for it. The audience might be very, very, very small. It might be 5 people in the world. Odds are they're never going to hear it. But the more successful stuff will appeal to a larger number of people. But the value of art shouldn't be placed on popularity.

 

You first have to become convinced yourself that your music is mature enough, good enough to release. Then you do so. Then you market, advertise, all that jazz. Then people buy it based on how much they like it and how well it has been marketed and advertised. If you don't do those things, people never hear it.

 

There's no answer to this question but discussing it is obviously interesting to people. Actually, it's making my head hurt.

[grace_slick]

KID ICARUS! Are you joking? You're so amusingly rude, I find it hard to take anything you say seriously. You seem to be a very angry young man. lol

[Blackwatch]

I honestly believe that just about any music that at least follows the basic rules will be called "good" by SOMEONE out there. Somewhere there's an audience for it. The audience might be very, very, very small. It might be 5 people in the world. Odds are they're never going to hear it. But the more successful stuff will appeal to a larger number of people. But the value of art shouldn't be placed on popularity.

 

 

I agree, people's tastes vary....but in the definition of "Good" it says,"having the required qualities; of a high standard." And even if those people "like" the music it still might not meet the high standards of being good.

 

I mentioned this a ways back in this thread that there's a big difference between-It's not good....And-I don't like it. If you don't like it....end of story. it's just a matter of taste. But if you say it's not good...you have to defend and tell why it's not good and give reasons.

In this sense, the 5 people who like the song like it, but it still might not be good.....And they might just be delusional........

[Kid Icarus]

 

KID ICARUS! Are you joking? You're so amusingly rude, I find it hard to take anything you say seriously. You seem to be a very angry young man. lol

 

 

You damn skippy I'm pissed. I feel like Ice Cube when he was in NWA and not all those family movies.

[grace_slick]

Hahaha, you make me laugh, sir.

[bostonwal]

No, your core argument blows and I'm going to tell you why it blows. Lots of people can love your music and you still won't take the "world" by storm. You should have said that one can achieve hometown hero status by writing good songs, being social with their fans, and looking out for other musicians in the community. But you had to take the long, hard road

Damn you're hung up on "taking the world by storm." I mean wow, you just can't get over it. Dude, it's a figure of speech. Relax. Btw, you have no concept of my core argument - the fact that people are there for the music and the music itself is enough of a show in many cases. And if the music can't be a show on its own, then adding backflips won't necessarily improve your audience numbers. I gave examples which support that point. I've seen arguments that blow - and this is certainly not one of them.

[Surrealistic]

Just to clarify, when I'm talking of putting on a good show, I'm not necessarily talking about backflips and strippers (although that's an interesting thought). For example another local act here consists of a guitarist and vocalist who sit down throughout - but they both have engaging personalities that shine through. The music would be just as good if they sat and looked at their shoes but I doubt they'd be as big a draw as they are. Putting on a good show in my book can be as simple as making sure your personality comes through - if only in little subtle ways.

[bostonwal]

Just to clarify, when I'm talking of putting on a good show, I'm not necessarily talking about backflips and strippers (although that's an interesting thought). For example another local act here consists of a guitarist and vocalist who sit down throughout - but they both have engaging personalities that shine through. The music would be just as good if they sat and looked at their shoes but I doubt they'd be as big a draw as they are. Putting on a good show in my book can be as simple as making sure your personality comes through - if only in little subtle ways.

 

 

I don't think you can separate the personalities of people and the music they make. The music is absolutely an extension of one's personality, in fact, the whole show is. Strippers are a key part of Kid Rock's show (i.e. cage dancers) but they aren't a key part of, say, U2's show. In the end, the only real advice is - don't be a boring person, or you'll write boring music and have a boring show.

[Surrealistic]

I don't think you can separate the personalities of people and the music they make. The music is absolutely an extension of one's personality

Bingo - but here's the thing: Not everyone is naturally capable of letting their true personality shine through on stage. Some people are naturals on stage and some people need to work at it - and I've seen plenty of people whose on-stage persona is far removed from their off-stage persona; for better and for worse.

[Johnny-Boy]

Yeah, probably easier to point out that which is bad rather than good.

John

[Blackwatch]

 

Originally Posted by bostonwal View Post I don't think you can separate the personalities of people and the music they make. The music is absolutely an extension of one's personality

 

 

I'm sorry but I tend to disagree with that statement. I think people's music is a result of their musical education, & their environments. Sometimes I think that their personalities show but not as often as you'd think....