Fender decals = illegal?

[ihavenofish]

didnt we have a thread like this 2 months ago?

oh, wait...

[Artslinger]

I would like to see someone try and set up a guitar shop in the US and sell fake Fenders without Fender shutting them down.

[Cold Gin]

You think it's just stupid decal eh? You know what they do with guys who put fake Fender decals on their guitars when they get caught? Do you have any idea what they will do to you in prison?? DO YOU?????

[SuproSuper Man]

I don't know, but according to the Homeland Security you might be classified as a terrorist.

yes,,the major guitar companys have big friends in washington,
they will have you taken to Guitar-a-mo Bay and tortured just like all the other Guiterrorists..


An Actual real video tape of a torture session in progress..
WARNING- do NOT let children watch it may traumatize or cause terrible night mares..
[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[ElectricEye]

why would you want to put a fender logo on a warmoth? if i see a warmoth with a fender logo i just think thats lame.

 

 

I dont' see a problem with it. I am starting my Warmoth build in a few months (now saving for it) and it's going to be a close replica of Glenn Tipton's black, dual-bucker Strat he used in the late 70's early 80s. I plan on getting a Fender decal for it. It just ads to the "replica-ness" of it.

 

I,too, would like to know where to get one. I'm sure the Warmoth fan sites have them somewhere.

[ihavenofish]

I would like to see someone try and set up a guitar shop in the US and sell fake Fenders without Fender shutting them down.

 

 

if you read a little earlier in this thread i cite an example.

 

if you use licensed necks, you can use a fender logo on them and resell them, but you must state of course that they are licened and not fender facotry made. the quirk in the mix is that noone(that i know of) is licensed to make the logo stickers.

 

the store in my example had a fender logo, but nothing else (no telecaster logo) on guitars made from warmoth bodies and necks. there were sold as warmoth licensed by fender guitars. the fender rep came knocking and they unbolted the neck to see the warmoth logos. this made fender happy and the guitars are still being sold there.

 

trademark, patent and copyright laws are pretty clear in their function. companies often try to bully others into submission hoping the infringer is ignorant of their rights, but if you took a "logo on licensed neck" case to court, the trademark holder (fender) would lose unless there were other specific infringements not covered under the license (selling the guitar AS a fender being and obvious one).

 

the key in any trademark case is proving that the infringing party is unlawfully profiting off your marks and reputation - or undermining said reputation. basically you have to prove loss. if youve licensed the company certain marks and that reputation, youve forfieted the right to bitch about certain dependant marks - in this case the logo, which is dependant on the name for which the use of IS granted explicitly.

[Artslinger]

the store in my example had a fender logo, but nothing else (no telecaster logo) on guitars made from warmoth bodies and necks. there were sold as warmoth licensed by fender guitars. the fender rep came knocking and they unbolted the neck to see the warmoth logos. this made fender happy and the guitars are still being sold there.

 

 

Wow no kidding that shop was selling warmoth guitars as Fenders, I've never seen that done at any guitar shop I've been in? Very strange considering building a Warmoth can cost almost as much as the real thing unless they were getting a deal on the Warmoth parts, so why not just call it a Wamoth?

 

There is a touchy area here, selling a non factory Fender, as long as your not making a profit selling as the real deal and you must use licensed Fender parts, plus you must aquire fake Fender logos.

[tele-vangelist]

I can't believe no one here has asked this yet but ...

WWJD?

[ihavenofish]

Wow no kidding that shop was selling warmoth guitars as Fenders, I've never seen that done at any guitar shop I've been in? Very strange considering building a Warmoth can cost almost as much as the real thing unless they were getting a deal on the Warmoth parts, so why not just call it a Wamoth? There is a touchy area here, selling a non factory Fender, as long as your not making a profit selling as the real deal and you must use licensed Fender parts, plus you must aquire fake Fender logos.

 

 

no. they were not selling warmoths AS fenders. that would be illegal. they were selling "warmoth bodied and necked licensed-by-fender parts-casters" with fender headstock decals.

 

the difference sounds trivial but its not. one is simply selling a product for what it is, the other is misleading the customer into thinking they are buying somethign they are not.

 

if the body and neck were not licensed - say made by eden - fender could have shut them down in a heartbeat for trademark violation.

 

theres alot of customer confusion in this area, and the bigger comapanies like to take advantage of it by bullying not just the sellers, but this customers themselves.

[Bert-O-325]

if you read a little earlier in this thread i cite an example. if you use licensed necks, you can use a fender logo on them and resell them, but you must state of course that they are licened and not fender facotry made. the quirk in the mix is that noone(that i know of) is licensed to make the logo stickers. the store in my example had a fender logo, but nothing else (no telecaster logo) on guitars made from warmoth bodies and necks. there were sold as warmoth licensed by fender guitars. the fender rep came knocking and they unbolted the neck to see the warmoth logos. this made fender happy and the guitars are still being sold there. trademark, patent and copyright laws are pretty clear in their function. companies often try to bully others into submission hoping the infringer is ignorant of their rights, but if you took a "logo on licensed neck" case to court, the trademark holder (fender) would lose unless there were other specific infringements not covered under the license (selling the guitar AS a fender being and obvious one). the key in any trademark case is proving that the infringing party is unlawfully profiting off your marks and reputation - or undermining said reputation. basically you have to prove loss. if youve licensed the company certain marks and that reputation, youve forfieted the right to bitch about certain dependant marks - in this case the logo, which is dependant on the name for which the use of IS granted explicitly.

 

 

So - wait a second - I get the part about the Licensed neck and body and saying its "licensed by" at point of sale - but the part about the Fender Logo? this implies that there IS some way to get a "Licensed" Fender Decal (sans "Telecaster" or "Stratocaster")??

 

Or, does it mean that the store made the logos themselves or something, and that the logo doesn't matter?

 

Just asking because I'm confused and curious.

[ihavenofish]

So - wait a second - I get the part about the Licensed neck and body and saying its "licensed by" at point of sale - but the part about the Fender Logo? this implies that there IS some way to get a "Licensed" Fender Decal (sans "Telecaster" or "Stratocaster")?? Or, does it mean that the store made the logos themselves or something, and that the logo doesn't matter? Just asking because I'm confused and curious.

 

 

im confused too actually on that one.

 

using logo on that specific guitar - aparently legal.

making logo and redistributing it - aparently illegal.

 

so... they either got the logo from fender, or point 2 is incorrect or "glossed over" because noone could prove where they got the logo anyway...

[shredtilurded]

Here are a few related questions for everyone: I have a few Fenders... and I don't ever plan on selling any of them. HOWEVER, I have been considering refinishing one or two of them, and I just might be doing a matching body / headstock paintjob on one of them. Here's my questions: Where can I get a new logo decal for the refinished headstock? What if I change the positioning of the Fender logo? For example, I have a Tele with the "50's style decal placement on the headstock, but I prefer the early 60's decal placement... would that violate any "rules" if I put the new logo on in a different place? Would putting a replacement decal / logo on a FENDER neck - even if I exactly duplicate the existing plaement - violate any trademark or laws?

 

 

AS LONG AS THE POWERS THAT BE CAN STILL DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S A FENDER PRODUCT.I WOUDLN'T THINK THERE WOULD BE A PROBLEM.IT'S STILLL A FENDER NECK RIGHT?

[joesl8]

Here are a few related questions for everyone: I have a few Fenders... and I don't ever plan on selling any of them. HOWEVER, I have been considering refinishing one or two of them, and I just might be doing a matching body / headstock paintjob on one of them. Here's my questions: Where can I get a new logo decal for the refinished headstock? What if I change the positioning of the Fender logo? For example, I have a Tele with the "50's style decal placement on the headstock, but I prefer the early 60's decal placement... would that violate any "rules" if I put the new logo on in a different place? Would putting a replacement decal / logo on a FENDER neck - even if I exactly duplicate the existing plaement - violate any trademark or laws?

This sounds like entrapment to me Phil!?