10 Years From Now, AutoTune vocals...

[DavidJones529]

 

T-Pain's first big hit was called "I'm N Luv (Wit a Stripper)" and it didn't have autotune all over it. And for what it is, it's not a bad song.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn_1ZWo0GNw

 

Tons of autotune (maybe this is a remix, so many versions of everything these days).

 

But I'm going to go out on a limb and say if there was no autotune on this, 9 out of 10 who complain about autotune wouldn't like it anyway.

[blue2blue]

What?!? You're saying there's AutoTune on that T-Pain song in the link?

 

Man, you're trippin'...

 

 

j/k

 

I just got done listening to the clean version and the regular version on Rhapsody (fi's about 192 wma) -- and it's the same AT. But I have to tell you... the effect (can't really call that artifacts, practically speaking) has a somewhat different sound.. where it's hard-stepping, of course, the jumps sound the same... but in sustained notes some of that heavy fluting sound is, I don't want to say more subtle, that's not the word -- but it's maybe a little less unpleasant. That said, 3 times through the first minute or so of that and I really was looking to send my ears off for a few weeks in a cotton lined room way out in the country.

[Rekel]

What makes a singer a singer is the ability to be able to create a sound that is in key on and on pitch. For centuries this is what allowed one to be called a

[ChordGirl]

What makes a singer a singer is the ability to be able to create a sound that is in key on and on pitch. For centuries this is what allowed one to be called a

[Cry Logic]

The reason I referred to distortion and chorus is because

to my mind they are the 2 FX that, more than any other

enable a relatively unskilled guitarist to sound competent.

 

Let's look at distortion.....

 

Distortion or overdrive whatever you call it has the property

of saturating the signal... working somewhat like a compressor

making notes sustain and lessening the difference between

soft and loud notes thereby enabling a whole rash of techniques

that would be impossible on an acoustic guitar.

 

Without distortion many genres just wouldn't exist.

 

There are many players who can play an electric guitar

through an overdriven amp or pedal that simply couldn't

achieve the same sounds on an unamplified acoustic guitar.

We accept those players as "real" musicians and don't

belittle their talent or ability just because they can't

achieve the same techniques without the electronic assistance.

 

Chorus (or any related modulation effect) also enables guitarists

to sound like a million dollars without having to learn a technique.

Often, when it is used, the music is artificially enhanced to the

point of not being achievable without the effect.

 

Some people used to think that any use of electronics was evil ,

even just straightforward amplification.

Remember the outrage when Dylan went electric?

 

In that respect, how is Autotuning any different?

[Cry Logic]

 

So -- wait a second -- are you actually saying you don't think this is a trainwreck?

 

 

hehehe

I hadn't heard this performance before tonight

and I was expecting it to be much worse than

you make it out to be.

 

It isn't a train wreck.

 

Storm in a teacup more likely.

 

I don't believe many people (non musicians) would

even notice something wrong.

[Cry Logic]

 

If by utter trainwreck you mean just barely noticeable to the casual listener if it's pointed out to them, then OK. Do you really think that when AT is used for pitch correction (not as an effect) that the results are as egregious as say, 80's-style thunderclap gated reverb drums?

 

 

+1:thu:

[scud133]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn_1ZWo0GNw Tons of autotune (maybe this is a remix, so many versions of everything these days). But I'm going to go out on a limb and say if there was no autotune on this, 9 out of 10 who complain about autotune wouldn't like it anyway.

 

 

doh crap it is everywhere in the beginning. i was just goign from the 30-sec iTunes preview. sorry, my bad.

 

the chorus doesn't have autotune-as-an-effect, at least

[DavidJones529]

 

In that respect, how is Autotuning any different?

 

 

I don't really disagree...to me, it's just a matter of personal taste.

 

In reference to the idea that autotune creates the performance, I'd say it's no different than a drum machine or a sequencer or a mellotron, and while it changes the landscape of popular music, many people still continue to learn the drums or keyboards or all the instruments the mellotron emulates.

 

And of course, multitrack recording also creates a performance, and people tuned vocals years before autotune, etc. and so forth.

 

So what can anyone do but do their own thing and not worry about what other people do or {censored} they don't like?

 

I wonder if the autotune inventor or other creators of musical cheating devices ever thought to destroy their ideas so as to save music?

[slight-return]

 

I wonder if the autotune inventor or other creators of musical cheating devices ever thought to destroy their ideas so as to save music?

 

 

 

For a while Antares had a demo of extrme autotuning they titled "what have we wrought?!?"

 

but it's been "secret" effect for quite a while -- it's just been outed now

 

DkkFOoTVMPE

[Cry Logic]

"......When people do not know the difference between a real singer and an enhanced performance we may as well just let robots do the vocals (which we probably will do eventually). Now this is sad because singing is the most personal and real human musical sound you can get. When it is degraded to the point that talent doesn

[DavidJones529]

 

 

 

I had a feeling Slim Whitman was a robot.

[Jotown]

 

Oh come on man! That's just sensationalist bull{censored}. If we followed your line of reasoning we'd still be bashing 2 rocks together. All that's happening is music and how it's made is evolving. This "autotune" phenomenon is simply one of those IMHO and people who're reacting so strongly against it are merely showing their inability to cope with change. We must find another word to refer to this effect. "Autotune" is the name of a proprietary device and software program... How about "re-tune"?

Or "De-Volving." There is another name for the effect and it is "Pitch Correction." It thas been around for a long time. It used to be done with Harmonizers and Chorusing. It was subtle and could be used to salvage an otherwise decent performance.

 

I use Autotune and Melodyne to fix a vocal performance that is otherwise good, and I think that most would agree that using autotune as a corrective tool on an otherwise good performance is no problem. However using it to create a performance (ala Lil

[RockViolin]

 

This "autotune" phenomenon is simply one of those IMHO and people who're reacting so strongly against it are merely showing their inability to cope with change.

 

 

There's a flipside.

 

- and people reacting so favorably to it (singing through it live to correct poor intonation) are merely showing their inability to cope with one of the most fundamental musical skills.

[MichaelSaulnier]

I don't mind if anyone uses any tool to make their music.

 

If I like it... I like it.

 

If not, I don't.

 

Each to his own.

 

Aren't there "better" things to worry about than whether someone uses "pitch correction"?

 

Like loops.

 

I hate people who use loops.

 

They are worthless fakers.

 

 

M

[blue2blue]

hehehe I hadn't heard this performance before tonight and I was expecting it to be much worse than you make it out to be. It isn't a train wreck. Storm in a teacup more likely. I don't believe many people (non musicians) would even notice something wrong.

 

Mmm...

 

His pitch leaps around erratically to notes with no relation to the melody that are completely out of any interpretation of the key with weird harmonic weirdness where it jumps from (wrong) note to note abruptly... if that's barely noticeable to you... well... there ya go. Sounds like a bigtime trainwreck to me.

 

[Cry Logic]

I hate people who use loops.They are worthless fakers.

 

 

You don't see the contradiction in the above 2 statements?

 

Wierd.

 

I use loops all the time and I take exception to being

called a faker because of it.

 

I'm also not particularly enamoured of the fact that

you "hate" me without ever having met me.

 

What is is with you people?:poke:

 

Times have changed and so have the ways and means

of making music!!!

 

Get with the flow guys and gals!

This is the 21st century!!!

[Lee Flier]

You don't see the contradiction in the above 2 statements?

 

Hint: he was kidding.

[DavidJones529]

I don't mind if anyone uses any tool to make their music. If I like it... I like it. If not, I don't. Each to his own. Aren't there "better" things to worry about than whether someone uses "pitch correction"? Like loops. I hate people who use loops. They are worthless fakers. M

 

I hate them, too. Even people who are really good suck.

[Cry Logic]

 

You are kidding, right? His pitch leaps around erratically to notes that are completely out of any interpretation of the key...

 

 

So it does.... but not to the point where it's a "TrainWreck".

 

I've heard worse from "singers" performing without a "re-tuning" device.

 

I was actually expecting it to sound really bad like that clip

that was getting around of Van Halen's jump where they'd

used the wrong sampling rate to play back the backing tracks

or whatever...

 

Now that was a TrainWreck.

[Cry Logic]

I hate them, too. Even people who are really good suck.

 

So that's 2 people here who "hate" me now.

Without ever having met me or heard my music.

 

I'm pretty sure Craig is into using loops.

 

Do you "hate" him as well?:poke:

[Lee Flier]

- and people reacting so favorably to it (singing through it live to correct poor intonation) are merely showing their inability to cope with one of the most fundamental musical skills.

 

Yeah, pretty much.

 

I don't really care if someone wants to use Autotune as "an effect" - I personally don't like the way it sounds on 99% of the stuff where I've heard it, but then I don't tend to like heavily effected production anyway, with a few notable exceptions. To me, production that follows the fad of the moment always ends up sounding "dated" within a fairly short time (e.g. 80's reverb) and I prefer stuff that has a more timeless quality. But that's just my taste. If other people find the sound pleasing to them and that's why they use it, then carry on by all means.

 

Where I object to the use of Autotune is to cover for somebody who can't actually sing in tune, or (possibly even worse) when it's used "by default" on someone who's already a great singer and doesn't need it. A lot of production decisions are made by people other than the artist, and I've been hearing a ton of records now where they aren't going for an obvious "effect," but nonetheless I can still hear Autotune, and it bugs. If you're going for an effect, fine, but if you're going for a natural sound, but still think somebody "needs" pitch correction if their pitch is off by a hair... well, I'd rather hear them them be off a little. It's human, and I can't help thinking (and in some cases I know) that the artist would prefer the producer didn't do that. I've even heard people "correct" notes that are obviously meant to be vocal effects themselves - pitch bending, blue notes and the like. It's actually shackling expressiveness in that situation.

 

Just sayin'. But carry on.

[Cry Logic]

Hint: he was kidding.

 

I'm not so sure about that Lee.

I do know that I'm not good at picking up

these kinds of things in forum posts.

And I tend to react and post sometimes

only to find out later that I got it all wrong.

 

No matter if he was or wasn't kidding it's OK.

 

I'm not about to change my ways.

 

It's all good.

[DavidJones529]

Train wrecks are often more entertaining than decent performances. Would anyone want to see that clip of Billy Joel singing the national anthem if he had simply done a fine job with no wrecking of the train? No, they would not.

[Jotown]

Yeah, pretty much. Where I object to the use of Autotune is to cover for somebody who can't actually sing in tune, or (possibly even worse) when it's used "by default" on someone who's already a great singer and doesn't need it.

That is how many people I know see it. And it has nothing to do with not keeping with the times or being behind the times.

 

It is about people who still care about music - and the talent it takes to make good music - and how when you blur the lines between what is real and what is blatantly fake, to the point where the listener can no longer tell talent from fakery, you are degrading what real music is and is suppose to be in any era.

 

This is not evolution but devolution.