Members jason41987 Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 hey everyone.. im looking for a keyboard to begin practicing with.. not sure what i should be looking for... 61 keys, 77 keys, brands, etc.. are lighted keyboards really that good to learn on? and what brands should i look at? looking for something that can mimic other instruments well.. especially grand piano, pipe organ, and harpsichord, as well as a variety of other sounds for playing around with so... what would you suggest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim gueguen Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 A budget would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Plink Floyd Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 Starting at the extreme low end, I just got this for $7 @ Goodwill.People have learned the basics on much worse:No lighted keys though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 $200 is my budget.. and id like to find something i can relatively quickly learn new songs on.. i play other instruments so i know all the aspects of music theory, can read some sheet music, but id like something to learn the piano with, especially classical music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Plink Floyd Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 So you probably want 88 weighted keys, which means you're probably under budget for a new one. The entry level Casio and Yamaha digipianos start in the mid $300s. Of course you can always try for a good deal in the used market, or ( if you have an adequate computer) get a used piano action midi controller and some soft synths. And the Casio Privias & Yamaha P70-80 boards aren't going to have lots of different sounds, either. Maybe try to find a used Alesis Q8.1. They frequently go for $350 ~ $400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 i dont think id need a full 88... i cant imagine myself needing more than 76 for 99% of music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 i was looking at something like the casio LK-280, yamaha EZ-220, or the casio WK-200 as options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Plink Floyd Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 id like something to learn the piano with, especially classical music If learning piano technique is one of your top priorities (especially classical), you really should consider piano action keys. Of course there's no shame in getting an entry level arranger for now, and stepping up later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 by piano action, you mean touch sensitive and weighted right?.. wouldnt weighted keys be a feature more necessary on pianos than electronic keyboards though.. i mean, if i didnt plan on playing any real pianos for a while, would it matter if they were weighted? that seems like someone i can get used to after ive already learned.. however, touch/velocity sensitive will be really important in the overall character of the music.. i dont think the yamaha has that, but the two casios do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnotherScott Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 If you want to learn piano as opposed to generic keyboard, a weighted action will be more appropriate, it will better approximate the piano feel, it will give you better control over dynamics (more important on piano than other typical keyboard sounds), the technique you develop will more easily transfer to a real piano. Most weighted actions are 88, whether you need them or not. In the used market, you may find things like Yamaha P-85, Casio CDP-100/PX-100/PX-110 in your price range, which are all pretty nice. But if you really don't want to go that way, some unweighted actions are better compromises for piano than others. I've played the Yamaha NP-30, it's better than most low-cost unweighted actions, and I believe it's basically the same action in the NP-31 and NP-11. Similarly, I found the Casio XW-P1 better than most, and I think the same action is in the WK-7500/CTK-7000/WK-6500/CTK-6000. Other Casios may have it as well, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 i cant see myself having the space for a regular piano any time soon... so ill have to say 95% of my playing will be on a keyboard, so i dont think weighted is necessary.. i do want to experiment a lot with sounds, be able to play any sound and music i can envision.. something to have a little fun with, so my priorities are something with velocity/touch sensitive keys, an array of notes and sounds, and something thatll be a good platform to learn the music... and a good training aid is a big plus.. lighted keys could help me step by step to learn the notes on the keyboard, and how to play different music that i like.. but im wondering just how important the lighted keys are when the casio WK-200 i looked at still had an LCD screen tell me which fingers to play which notes step by step, and there is software to learn music, such as synthesia... so a question i have is what will be the better learning aid, lighted keyboard, synthesia with a keyboard that could still tell me which fingers to use on the music i want to play?... i feel like the lighted keys might help me at first, but could also end up being a crutch its odd.. but ever since i was a kid.. i found myself tapping out melodies on tables, desks, anything... without realizing it i notice the notes i tend to tap out i tap what should be the higher notes on my fingers further to the right as if i was doing it on a piano, without actually realizing it or thinking about it.. so it feels to me like an instrument i was meant to play... moreso than more common instruments, such as guitar since i cant get everything i want for the price range stated... im going to have to make some compromises... i think synthesia with a USB capable keyboard would be fine for learning, they allow me to learn by the single note, same as the lighted keyboard would, but as i get into it more i feel it would be less of a crutch because it would require me to learn quicker as to which notes are where on the keyboard... it would allow me to associate the individual notes to the individual keys, so i wont be doing much "hunt n peck" following a light... making a compromise on that i can get a larger 76 key keyboard with velocity sensitive keys, tons of effects and useful features for the $200 limit, and should i decide to play more on a regular piano later on, atleast knowing the music would be a good start, and i would only have to get used to weighted keys at that point... so... anyone else agree the WK-200 would be a good choice or is there something inherently wrong with this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 18, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 18, 2012 anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RetroVintageOld Posted September 18, 2012 Members Share Posted September 18, 2012 I started with a crappy Casio and moved up. Do the same. Practice. Save your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 19, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 19, 2012 well, ive narrowed my choices down to the casio WK-225 for $200, and the yamaha YPG-235 for $250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Plink Floyd Posted September 19, 2012 Members Share Posted September 19, 2012 FWIW, I can say this about that: My PSR 730 sounds better than the WK-1800 that I mentioned earlier. But that's only considering the built-in speakers, I haven't A/B'd them with headphones or good monitors. Are you near a store where you can try your two choices? If so, take phones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 19, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 19, 2012 i am not near any music stores, however, im good enough with electronics to install better speakers if its an issue, but ill be using my headphones almost exclusively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 19, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 19, 2012 so anyone know the difference between the WK-200 and the WK-225? theyre sold at the same price, and both current production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted September 19, 2012 Members Share Posted September 19, 2012 Get the Yamaha. I have always found them to be the best value for the money in "student level" instruments, be they keyboards, flutes, saxophones, whatever. I have never played a Casio that I found inspiring, other than the Casio SK-1 I owned 25+ years ago. It was inspiring because you could burp into the sampler and have it play back the demo song in burps. Anyhow. I own a DGX-620 (YPG-635) and have played a DGX-530 in the music store. I think the DGX 530 has the same keybed as the YPG-235. I found the keybed to be just barely alright -- and I am a picky guy (the DGX-620 keybed is better). The Yamaha will sound fine on its internal speakers, and it will sound great plugged into a amp or PA if you ever get there with it. If you are planning on learning to play the piano, as others have said, you want a good piano action. Not just "weighted keys", "graded hammer action" is what I recommend. Go to the music store and play the Yamaha Clavinova line to see what really good feels like. Much better than my DGX-620! Don't fool yourself into thinking that all key actions are the same. You could learn Flamenco guitar on a Fender Stratocaster, but that's not the right tool for the job, either! I find a good piano action being particularly key to helping me play expressive passages well. That, and for training (scales). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 19, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 19, 2012 as ive tried to say before, id like the ability to play some classical, but for the most part i want something for learning with and experimenting with, and doubt i will ever own a real piano, theyre just not practical unless you have a ton of space, and the patience for keeping them in tune.. of which i have neither.. so as long as its touch/velocity sensitive, ill be happy eventually i wouldnt mind upgrading to the YPG-535, which is an 88-key version of the YPG-235 i believe... i wonder why 61-key keyboards are so much more common... they seem so limiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jason41987 Posted September 19, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 19, 2012 i also thought about getting something like the m-audio 88es, and using my PC for the effects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted September 19, 2012 Members Share Posted September 19, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 i wonder why 61-key keyboards are so much more common... they seem so limiting It's because a lot of people, just like yourself, want to get the cheapest thing possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ghostpaw Posted September 20, 2012 Members Share Posted September 20, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 as ive tried to say before, id like the ability to play some classical, but for the most part i want something for learning with and experimenting with, and doubt i will ever own a real piano, theyre just not practical unless you have a ton of space, and the patience for keeping them in tune.. of which i have neither.. so as long as its touch/velocity sensitive, ill be happyeventually i wouldnt mind upgrading to the YPG-535, which is an 88-key version of the YPG-235 i believe... i wonder why 61-key keyboards are so much more common... they seem so limiting You really aren't hearing them. You think you are but you are discounting priceless advice from people who have already done what you said you want to do. Experience is not the best teacher in life if it is your own experience. It is very time consuming and expensive. Learning from OTHER people's experience is much more effective. This is why I assume you posted your question here. But you are not hearing them.You said: Originally Posted by jason41987 looking for something that can mimic other instruments well.. especially grand piano, pipe organ, and harpsichord, as well as a variety of other sounds for playing around with If you want to learn to play, and you want it to sound like a piano, you'll want at least weighted action. They aren't saying it out of some kind of keyboard snobbery. They are saying this to help you. More than you realize. They are giving you advice based on a lot of experience. That reason you posted here to begin with. Ignore their words if you must, but you will not get the result you initially said you wanted. They keyboard itself is a bigger factor than you seem to believe. Especially if you are just starting to learn.Are you under the impression that as long as the sampled sounds are okay that is all that matters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthaholic Posted September 20, 2012 Members Share Posted September 20, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 i wonder why 61-key keyboards are so much more common... they seem so limiting Originally Posted by ChristianRock It's because a lot of people, just like yourself, want to get the cheapest thing possible OK, my turn: because manufacturers have tons of technical knowledge but little common sense. Especially Yamaha, who has basically decided to stop making 76 key boards. And then you have Korg, who can't decide whether to make 76 or go with the much less usable 73 keys, which I will not buy. And it's a shame, because the Kronus and the Krome both look like nice boards.Phew! I feel better now.You may want to look for reviews of the Yamaha NP-31, which is a 12 lbs. piano action @ $279, from Sweetwater:http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NP31Or the Casio WK-6500, @ $299:http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/WK6500/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Plink Floyd Posted September 20, 2012 Members Share Posted September 20, 2012 Originally Posted by jason41987 i wonder why 61-key keyboards are so much more common... they seem so limiting It's enough. Aside from being cheaper to produce, 61 keys are more than enough to cover the range of almost any type of single synth sound or instrument you might want to emulate.Except piano (and harp).Organs can have as much range as pianos, but you just flip stops to change the range. You don't need seven octaves of keys for any particular organ sound, it would sound crappy at one end or the other. Very few organs, even the most expensive fabulous gold plated Episcopalian behemophones, have keyboards with more than five octaves. When one does, it's probably a theater organ in Atlantic City with a keyboard that controls a piano or harp that doesn't work anymore.(Of course, if you want multiple sounds split across a keyboard, that's another thing.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthaholic Posted September 20, 2012 Members Share Posted September 20, 2012 Originally Posted by Plink Floyd It's enough. Aside from being cheaper to produce, 61 keys are more than enough to cover the range of almost any type of single synth sound or instrument you might want to emulate. Yes, if you are talking strictly about synthesizers or organ. But it's too specialized to be your only board. And as you say: Originally Posted by Plink Floyd (Of course, if you want multiple sounds split across a keyboard, that's another thing.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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