Members montemerrick Posted March 28, 2015 Members Share Posted March 28, 2015 Howdy folks, Say, I was wondering - is it possible to switch a glued on bridge for a tail piece and floating bridge on a flattop... its a 42 year old Harmony with a peeling off bridge... thanks for any advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 28, 2015 Members Share Posted March 28, 2015 Yes it is, some Harmonys did have tail pieces. You can either remove the old bridge (which will leave cosmetic issues) and replace it with a true floating bridge which you'll probably have to make - an archtop bridge will be too tall (your bridge and saddle is probably about 1/2 overall height, an adjustable archtop bridge is about 1 inch at its lowest adjustment). You'll need to fill pin holes and deal with the foot print of the old bridge, You can also use a glued on bridge with a tailpiece - many ladder braced guitar were built that way. Remember that a tailpiece instrument does have an entirely different mechanical system for driving the top - with a tailpiece almost all of the string tension is a vector directly into the top (plus of course the tension on the end block) - with a pinned bridge there is large rotational component and almost no vertical force. What I'm saying here is that you will probably change the sound of the guitar. May I ask why you don't just remove and reglue the bridge - I do it all the time and its very straightforward. It does take a couple of special clamps but anyone who repairs guitars will have them. I can show some pictures and talk you thru it if you are interested. By the way, welcome to HCAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members montemerrick Posted March 28, 2015 Author Members Share Posted March 28, 2015 Thanks for the welcome and thanks for the quick and detailed reply! I'm not sure what is the issue exactly - Ive take the bridge off, and the top of the guitar bellies out too... kind of odd, not flat. sort of contributes to the action being pretty high... i was thinking that a tailpiece and floating bridge (like my old silvertone flattop has) would possibly help correct that or maybe its supposed to be that way... interestingly the page for this guitar (a 1973 H6340) on the Harmony site shows exactly the same thing my guitar suffered from - all failing the same way? or intentional shape? http://harmony.demont.net/model/177.htm... there certainly wasnt any failed glue remains under the "lifted" portion. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted March 28, 2015 Members Share Posted March 28, 2015 Brace let go. I'm ignernt about such things but associate a distended top with separated internal braces that would normally retain it. Have you peered into the guitar yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 28, 2015 Members Share Posted March 28, 2015 This picture is from your link And is very common on all kinds of guitars - I have fixed quite a few of them and it is relatively easy - you continue to remove the bridge using heat and moisture - I have a couple of artist pallet knifes that I put in hot water, then work between the bridge and top. Ideally it will separate along the old glue line. You want to remove all the old glue, Reglue with either hide or yellow AR and clamp very well. I use the pin holes for alaignment. As far as the bellyed top - again, that may be a structural issue or it may be normal, My old Martin 12 string had a significant belly - I actually tried one of those bridge doctor things which didn't work (it also had a lifting bridge). Resetting the neck restored the geometry. It sounds like you need to have everything evaluated before you do anything. I'll once again suggest not putting the tailpiece on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members montemerrick Posted March 28, 2015 Author Members Share Posted March 28, 2015 Hi well, I haven't peered in yet but I have bravely reached in and felt around. No spiders or loose braces. the bridge is curved (as is the one in the picture) analogous to the shape of the soundboard. The action as it was wasn't unplayable, you just needed to transition from Bill Bixby into Lou Ferrigno to make barre chords. Re-setting the neck, which I understand in principle (old furniture restorer), is maybe a little bit scary. So at this point I've got the bridge in my hands (typng with one finger) and gluing it back is definitely the path of least resistance, although the plastic adjustable saddle leaves something to be desired ( a nicer saddle for instance). I have got to learn to stay out of the Goodwill store... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted March 28, 2015 Members Share Posted March 28, 2015 Those are some shop-worn pins. Looks like the misalignment of the holes has prompted a previous owner to remove them with pliers when changing strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted March 28, 2015 Members Share Posted March 28, 2015 I don't have much to add but Welcome Aboard. Neck resets are not for the faint of heart but reattaching the bridge should be well withing your capabilities. As for the saddle, you can usually replace the adjustable kind with a pair of nut blanks sanded to shape; again, something you can handle with minimal trouble. Any music store can sell you a new set of bridge pins; just make sure they fit. Any further action (pardon the pun) can wait until you have the bridge reglued. You can evaluate the neck angle by laying the edge of a straightedge along the fretboard; it should make a straight line to the top of the wood part of the bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 28, 2015 Members Share Posted March 28, 2015 The only significant problem with gluing it back on is how to clamp it. I have some special really deep c-clamps that I bought just for the purpose - I use 3, one in the middle and one on each of the wings. I've also made some special cauls for both the inside and outside to apply pressure without breaking braces or marring the bridge. My clamping caul has two 10-32 bolts that just fit thru pin holes - it helps align the bridge (it will want to skate around when you put glue on it). That might be an adequate way to clamp it but I really thing adding the c-clamps is a good idea. You will want to see even glue squeeze out all around the edge of the bridge. You can decide to keep or replace the adjustable saddle - I'd replace it. Resetting a neck is not a do it yourself project, but certainly an old Harmony would be a good guitar to experiment on. First determine if it needs it... Report back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members montemerrick Posted March 28, 2015 Author Members Share Posted March 28, 2015 nice clamping rig. looks good. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members montemerrick Posted March 29, 2015 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2015 In an aside, I was just going up and down the aisles at eBay looking for a replacement bridge/saddle that seemed to match (but slightly larger- the faux spruce finish about an 1/8th inch out from the bridge is messed up) In any case, there I was when i saw this thing... a bridge clamp made bysome fellow who writes a good eBay ad... what do you think of his clamp?http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acoustic-Guitar-Bridge-Install-Clamp-USA-Luthier-Made-Modified-Sloane-Design-/121605463899?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c50401f5b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 29, 2015 Members Share Posted March 29, 2015 LMI sells one very similar but for less money http://www.lmii.com/products/tools-s...-bridge-clamps StewMacalso sells something kind of similar except that it uses one big c-clamp instead of the bolts thru the pin holes http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools...ping_Caul.html The problem with clamping a bridge is that its a weird shaped thing - you need to apply pressure both in the center and the wings. With the LMI version I would want something under the ends of the outside two bolts. A machinist could make one for far less than any of these are charging. A couple of minor points - glue will run into the pin holes that don't have bolts thru them - drill out with 3/16 bit and ream to fit your pins (usually five degrees). If you put a caul or washers inside best to put waxed paper over them - they can get glued to the bridgeplate and are a bitch to get off (that's why mine is made from UHMW). Looking at the pictures in your previous link the stock bridge looks like a cross between a belly bridge and a pyramid - you might find something the same size but I would guess that you'd have to make one. You can follow DeepEnd's advice and make or buy an extra wide saddle, or you can fill the slot and route a new channel. Problem with the latter is that once again, it takes special tools My normal charge for removing and regluing a bridge is about 30 dollars (one hour of my labor) - if you lived near me we could just do it and you wouldn't have to invest in a lot of tools. edit to add - if you buy a bridge make sure the pin hole spacing is the same as yours and that the saddle slot is the same distance from the pin holes (ie - if you orient the new bridge with the pin holes you want the slot in the same place or it will be out of compensation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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