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  • Our drummer wants to expand the band!

    The drummer in the alternative/modern rock/top 40 band that I'm in mentioned the other night that he would like to expand the band from our current format (guitar, bass, drums, singer), that has been together for about 5 years now, to a much larger band with a keyboard player and a horn section.  For the benefit of not being negative I didn't say much but I don't see how it could happen.  We are not in a town with a lot of musicians, and it's not a college town where there are college players available to gig, and we're not really playing that much anyway.  I'm not against the idea on principle, but basically, we don't have much to offer other players right now.  If we were solidly booked we could always get players to play, but we aren't.  I don't know ANY horn players, much less enough for a whole horn section, and keyboard players are super rare around here.  I don't know what his plan is.....I guess we will see.  No questions but thanks for allowing the (mild) rant!

     


  • #2
    Why rant that the idea will be hard to do? Lots of things worth doing are hard to do. You don't have to find these players, so why break a sweat?

    Now, ranting about being able to find $1000 bar gigs...that would be a good rant.

    BTW if I had a band with that instrumentation, I totally would not be playing top 40. I would be playing soul! 634-5789 and stuff like that!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My2apquxKKQ
    --Hammond: BC, M3, Split L111, L122 / Leslie: 51, 760 / Yamaha: DGX-620, PF-85Follow my new band, Dr. Bombay! We're going to be organasmic!

    Comment


    • SeniorBlues
      SeniorBlues commented
      Editing a comment

      Who's going to write the charts?


    • WynnD
      WynnD commented
      Editing a comment

      wesg wrote:
      Why rant that the idea will be hard to do? Lots of things worth doing are hard to do. You don't have to find these players, so why break a sweat?

      Now, ranting about being able to find $1000 bar gigs...that would be a good rant.

      BTW if I had a band with that instrumentation, I totally would not be playing top 40. I would be playing soul! 634-5789 and stuff like that!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My2apquxKKQ
      Hey! My band resembles that idea. (7 piece, 2 full time horns and I switch off between keys and trumpet. Variety dance band with a R&B heart. We also play 634-5789.) The horns can be a lot of fun.

  • #3
    Depending on the type of band and players, charts aren't always necessary. I'd wait until there are players found and the direction if the band is decided upon first.
    _________________________________________________
    band websites:
    http://www.JumpStartYourParty.com
    https://www.gigmasters.com/Rock/Jump-Start
    https://www.facebook.com/JumpStartYourParty
    http://www.weddingwire.com/biz/jumps...587fe5f12.html

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    • SeniorBlues
      SeniorBlues commented
      Editing a comment

      guido61 wrote:
      Depending on the type of band and players, charts aren't always necessary. I'd wait until there are players found and the direction if the band is decided upon first.

      We didn't need charts when we were full time and everyone was the same age and familiar with the current material, but in today's market, that would surprise me.

      What sort of style/work situation can you imagine that could get by without them?


  • #4
    Well, like you said, if everyone is full time or not would be the biggest factor. And depending on the size of the section and the complexity of the material. If its a lot of R&B standards--I know a lot of players that have played "Soul Man" enough times that they don't really need a chart for it anymore, ya know?

    A lot of times it is one of the horn players who does the charting as well.
    _________________________________________________
    band websites:
    http://www.JumpStartYourParty.com
    https://www.gigmasters.com/Rock/Jump-Start
    https://www.facebook.com/JumpStartYourParty
    http://www.weddingwire.com/biz/jumps...587fe5f12.html

    Comment


    • SpaceNorman
      SpaceNorman commented
      Editing a comment

      guido61 wrote:

      Well, like you said, if everyone is full time or not would be the biggest factor. And depending on the size of the section and the complexity of the material. If its a lot of R&B standards--I know a lot of players that have played "Soul Man" enough times that they don't really need a chart for it anymore, ya know?

      A lot of times it is one of the horn players who does the charting as well.


      This is how it works in my "horn band" project.   If we pull out something that the horns don't have charted and rehearsed - it's no biggie.  The sax guy plays a lick the first time ... the trombone picks a harmony note and joins in the sax guy the second time through ... the trumpet player picks a different harmony note and joins the sax and trombone the third time through.   It's instant horn parts - worked out by the horn players on the spot.  They can go all night using this approach alone if we're playing typical "Sam and Dave" sort of R&B material.   

      On the more complex stuff - the horn players take it upon themselves to write their charts.  In our situation, all three are school trained musicians and have years of experience as high school band directors.  (...this means that not only are they capable of charting it - they also have that sort of enthusiasm and positivity that only high school band directors posses.   I don't speak "horns" but I think I've actually heard them fighting over who gets to chart the next tune. 

      They also work out who's taking which solos.  The rest of us have learned to leave 'em to do what they do.  They communicate extremely well amongst themselves and certain don't need any direction from us.   They're all excellent soloists ... and come up with some crazy stuff.   To quote one a buddy who happened to come out to see us for the first time "...that trombone solo in Prince's "Kiss" took me by surprise - I certainly didn't see that coming!  That was so cool!!!".    When **************** is working by itself - a competent band leader keeps his mouth shut and doesn't try to "direct" it!!!!!

       


  • #5
    LOL Oh man, been there done that, I remember one band I was in that was a classic rock cover band that was gigging regularly in local dive bars had a drummer that wanted to add keys and a horn section, same EXACT thing...it was absolutely rediculous, cuz we weren't making all that much to begin with...don;t take this the wrong way but you should have said something immediately, I know I did, I said that any cut in pay just wouldn't have been worth it to me, along with the fact that there just wasn't a market for it and that it would actually hurt us rather than help us, and would close a lot more doors to us than would open...

    I would try to explain this to your drummer in the best way possible, hopefully your other bandmembers feel the same way, and you guys can all convince him that a) it's not gonnna be NEARLY as easy as he thinks it will be b) as you said there's not any players available and c) it will most likely hurt you guys more than help.

    Good luck, it can be hard, a lot of times when a muso gets an idea in his head like this it can be impossible to make them understand that it's just not a good idea and they will take it personally if not everyone else is on board, but hopefully your drummer is in the rediculously small category of musos that can actually listen to reason.
    Originally Posted by co&cafan808


    chevybusa ****************in delivers the lulz!!!



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    Originally Posted by OldGuitarPlayer


    Ahhh...John Cage. The ultimate troll.









    Originally Posted by Anderton


    Just remember...machines don't kill music, people do.

    Comment


    • guido61
      guido61 commented
      Editing a comment

      chevybusa wrote:
      LOL Oh man, been there done that, I remember one band I was in that was a classic rock cover band that was gigging regularly in local dive bars had a drummer that wanted to add keys and a horn section, same EXACT thing...it was absolutely rediculous, cuz we weren't making all that much to begin with...don;t take this the wrong way but you should have said something immediately, I know I did, I said that any cut in pay just wouldn't have been worth it to me, along with the fact that there just wasn't a market for it and that it would actually hurt us rather than help us, and would close a lot more doors to us than would open...


      Well, I'd at least find out why the drummer wants to add those extra members.  If they are a classic rock cover band, it may be because he doesn't want to be a classic rock cover band any longer and maybe he sees a market opportunity for doing things differently.

      OTHO, if it's just because he thinks it would "be cool" but the band would still be playing the same gigs for the same money.....probably not worth it, as you say.


    • New Trail
      New Trail commented
      Editing a comment

      chevybusa wrote:
      LOL Oh man, been there done that, I remember one band I was in that was a classic rock cover band that was gigging regularly in local dive bars had a drummer that wanted to add keys and a horn section, same EXACT thing...it was absolutely rediculous, cuz we weren't making all that much to begin with...don;t take this the wrong way but you should have said something immediately, .....

      There are two reasons why I didn't say anything.  One, I don't think it would or even could happen.  There just aren't that many horn players, and like NO keyboard players.  We tried to add a keyboardist (the drummer's friend) a while back (he's already in another local working band) and he said no.....and Two, I don't want to be negative about it.  If he takes it on himself to find people that actually are interested I don't want to be the veto.


  • #6
    Drummers.







    NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

    Comment


    • #7
      Dunno if it's a good idea to copy a format other bands are already successful with. How are you going to find your niche? Unless you really had some unique spin on it... Is there room in market for 3 bands with horns an keys?
      _________________________________________________
      band websites:
      http://www.JumpStartYourParty.com
      https://www.gigmasters.com/Rock/Jump-Start
      https://www.facebook.com/JumpStartYourParty
      http://www.weddingwire.com/biz/jumps...587fe5f12.html

      Comment


      • New Trail
        New Trail commented
        Editing a comment

        guido61 wrote:
        Dunno if it's a good idea to copy a format other bands are already successful with. How are you going to find your niche? Unless you really had some unique spin on it... Is there room in market for 3 bands with horns an keys?

        Good Point!  We're probably more different right now than we would be if we added pieces.  One of the other bands is basically an oldies band, and the other band, while playing some newish material, plays a lot of older material as well.  We play a lot more current top 40 than either of them, although I can't help but think that if we added a horn section and a keyboardist our song choices would change to better use those additional players.  We might end up playing Chicago, Blood, Sweat & Tears, and Earth, Wind and Fire songs like those other bands do.


    • #8
      To follow on what SpaceNorman is saying: you have to build the band from somewhere. You're not going to put together an 8 piece show band and start booking a lot of big-dollar shows overnight. But you never will book the big dollar shows unless you're willing to take the plunge and make a bit of an "investment" in the quality of the band

      Plus you'll have the added pleasure of being in such a band. But, of course, it IS more work and trouble. More members means every issue is multiplied. But nothing worthwhile comes without effort.
      _________________________________________________
      band websites:
      http://www.JumpStartYourParty.com
      https://www.gigmasters.com/Rock/Jump-Start
      https://www.facebook.com/JumpStartYourParty
      http://www.weddingwire.com/biz/jumps...587fe5f12.html

      Comment


      • CliffordN
        CliffordN commented
        Editing a comment

        I came here from a big band group, with all of that and more... Not much money around for that, but the sound was incredible! I have to have the keyboard, but want the horns too, if at all possible! Probably could have done without the four back up singers though! We were more of an orchestra than a band, I guess!

        So, it's probably better to not get carried away!

        Here's a pic, if you can see past the damn music stands! (The reason I'm no longer in the group)

        BRE.jpg

        Attached Files

    • #9
      I used to play with a horn section with a band in the early 80s. While we did do some current R&B covers with the horns, the most fun was using them on our new wave/pop originals. Gave us a pretty unique sound.

      As far as using them in a cover band today? What might be done to make the band more versatile or unique initially could end up making the band just as common as it was before, just with a different song list. I love horn bands, and there are some very good ones around here, but the truth is as soon as you see the horn section, you can pretty much guess what the song list is gonna be.

      It would be cool to use them and keep the band as unique as possible. If I were to add horns. I'd probably want to do what it seems like Old Fart Rocker is doing and add a lot of Latin flavored stuff because there's a good market for that in this area. I'd also be trying to come up clever arrangements for adding horns to modern pop stuff. But all of that is probably significantly more work than just cranking out the Sam and Dave standards.
      _________________________________________________
      band websites:
      http://www.JumpStartYourParty.com
      https://www.gigmasters.com/Rock/Jump-Start
      https://www.facebook.com/JumpStartYourParty
      http://www.weddingwire.com/biz/jumps...587fe5f12.html

      Comment


      • wesg
        wesg commented
        Editing a comment
        Interesting idea, Dave. "Moves Like Jagger" would be awesome with a full horn section.

        You know what else? A good horn section comping sforzando-piano-crescendo could actually bring some of that pumpy modern dance feel they normally do with kick-drum/sidechain compression.

    • #10

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