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Shafted by the band!!

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  • #31
    Well, I finally got to talking to some of the band members and the three I talked to so far were in agreement with my deal of 15% off the top for PA use and gas money to haul the stuff. The drummer actually said he was going to talk to me about giving me more money because of all the stuff of mine we used. He knew what that I was doing everyone a HUGE favor for free!! The last two memebers I haven't talked to yet are the ones who suggested that "their friend" buy a PA and run it. I think they have a control issue. That was a year ago and "their friend" had run my board on a few gigs and during sound check, things supposedly sounded good, but at the end of the night people complained that guitars were the only thing to be heard. They didn't even ask for my help at all, so I didn't offer any!! Imagine running or even seeing a board for the first time after a ten minute crash course, and that was only an eight channel with a few amps!! My system is much larger now. We haven't played out in a while because of personnel changes, but I will get things straight before our next gig!!

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    • #32
      Good idea, Mark, but I've got a slightly different perspective. I'm in a 5-piece band (plus tech). Four of us have worked together on-and-off since 1969, first in road acts, then as weekend warriors. This incarnation has been in existence ten years, and, with the exception of turnover in one GTR/vocal slot, has been stable.

      We operate largely as a collective--but some animals are more equal than others. I guess I'm the "leader." I deduct off the top for PA, mileage, maintenance and expenses (the band owns the truck, the drummer hauls the band--we pay him mileage)--we consider the FOH tech a band member for pay purposes, but he has no vote in repertoire matters. One guitarist and I, in conjunction with an agent, handle bookings and scheduling--agent books road, we book local/area. I pay the taxes and issue the 1099s.

      After the PA and expenses, we do an even split--all feast--all famine. On more lucrative gigs (usually casinos), we set aside a larger chunk of change for the expense fund.

      Personnel decisions are by consensus, song selection is by majority. Set lists are worked up by several people, tried and tinkered with on smaller gigs 'til I come up with a workable, acceptable list (front vocals are split three ways, we have a few song with brass and a few others with alternate GTR tunings, so transitions can be tricky).

      There's a commonality of experience and trust among the four of us old guys --even the fifth, the "new" guy has it (he originally joined us almost 4 years ago, had to leave (moved), then came back last year). We even have the division of labor planned for our funerals. One will carry the urn, one will scatter the ashes, two will hand out plastic cups, the tech will tap the half-barrel.

      When there's a difference of opinion, my role is pretty much that of tie-breaker and persuader. If I'm generally on the winning side (things usually break out 2 to 2 without me), I can occasionally force through an unpopular (but necessary) decision. On load-ins, I'm the guy who cruises, points and helps everybody. (I loaded and unloaded the truck 'til my back went). Oh, yeah. I get to locate fresh talent, but invitations to join are consensus. Invitations to un-join are also consensus, but I get to do the actual firing.

      I couldn't function in this band as an autocrat. I do that in my day job. Besides, if I tried it with this bunch, the laughter would deafen me.

      Phil
      Qualis vir, talis oratio?

      --Phil

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      • #33
        Each group of people will bring a unique perspective to the table. A commune might work for some. An autocratic leader may work elsewhere. Something in between is porbably what most want. The key is to determine what the boundaries are for your relationship and to specify those. Otherwise it will get ugly at some point.
        Yeah, now!

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        • #34
          We're a disfunkshunal family. Some don't want to be told what to do or work hard enough to make things happen. So, autocratic is out, although myself and the lead guitarist have sort of taken the role as the voices of opinion, i.e. "That sounds like s***, lets play it again and maybe try this." No fingers can be pointed, everything has to be non player specific or heads turn red. We've told players to try certain things and some of the comments back were, "This is my style," meaning to me that the player is limiting himself and locking us into what he wants to play, and "I don't even listen to the bass!!" That one comes from the keyboard player, translated into "I went to music school, who the F*** are you to tell me how to play!" and "I am playing so much I can't even hear the bass!" I'm just in this band for S***s and jiggles. I've developed a strong bond with some of the good players and hope to go somewhere with them. I know that I will finally snap with the disfunctional band and quit one day, but that hasn't happened yet. I want to take some of the players and start something new. I play with another much better band in attitude as well as abilities. This sort of became my rant, sorry!

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          • #35
            Monitor guy's been with me 25 years, other tech/engr for 19 yaers. There's a lot to the stability and trust issue when the **************** hits the fan. Some of the gigs we do are very large in terms of logistics, so it's nice to have 3 responsible people to oversee the regular crews. It also helps to have a frind or two on the job site if things get wierd (don't do many of these gigs anymore) and with a monitor guy that's 6'-3" and about 230 lbs, we don't get much ****************. He's an attorney by education, so we don't get shafted either. I like the "triple damages" settlement clause he uses. Eliminates the really ****************ty clients right up front!

            We did a gig last year where the tour manager had a masters in American History, their FOH sound guy was an attorney and the lighting guy was an MBA. I'm an E.E., my tech is an E.E. also! Made for a very fun evening for sure. The hangover was hell, but we stayed up after the gig having a raging discussion about N.Y. politics and economy.
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

            Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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            • #36
              "Guys, here's the deal... Up to now I've paid for the PA and coordinated getting it here. But, that really hasn't been fair to me and I'm starting to get pissed off over it. So, from here on out, I'm going to pass that responsibility on to someone else who can work with making sure we have a PA. If you'd like, I'm willing to rent the band the pa we've been using for $100 or you can come up with a different one."

              Simple, then prepare to have a spine and don't cower.
              www.LastToLeaveBand.com

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              • #37
                Yep, money and bands are a bitch. If you said to a few guys hey lets get a hooker and we'll all screw her, would they expect you to pay for it? Probably not. But for whatever reason in bands it seems that whoever has the most money in a band is expected to pay for things without being compensated. I think the obvious thing to do is to negotiate things really openly ahead of time if at all possible. If the guys aren't willing to pay there share for things like PA/recording/promotions/etc. then unfortunately you either have to accept that and pay for it yourself or find some new band members. I know that with my band, (whom I am currently auditioning other members for unbeknownest to the others) I have the cash right now and had offered to front the money for recording. One would assume that they would then realize that they would have to eventually pay me back in some fashion. Nope, the idiots just figured they would get a free ride. If I find some guys that can compete with my old guys you can bet that I'm moving on.

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                • #38
                  If you are serious about your music...it is your life and your business and good business men are always willing to put back into their business in order to make it grow . Music is no different.....if you deal with people who are not willing to invest in their business, which is music..... perhaps you should seek more serious business partners . On the other side of the coin there are many who spend far too much $ on the latest and greatest gear and no time on becoming better musicians...in either case such people are useless .
                  The Brotha who shredz

                  "Is it only now that you discover that people fear intelligence?... Nothing can make you more enemies, and the reason is simple. With intelligence you more readily recognize the ridiculous, with intelligence you cannot stop yourself from laughing at it"____Marquis de Sade

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                  • #39
                    Wow here's a post from the deep, dark past. My cuyonnes have grown since this post and so have my playing skills. I don't compromise anything music wise because of friendship anymore. I'm in two originals bands and things are GREAT. No issues and the people I play with have a pro, business attitude.

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                    • #40
                      I didn't read all the posts .. only the first page.. so sorry if I am off topic by now.. BUT.. lets see here.....

                      first off re read mr knobs post on page1 .. its the good stuff also . a bass player WITH PA .. hmm who needs wo here. I think you can easly find other opertunities ( find you local freebe publication and put an ad in .. bass play with pa - looking for work .. thanks gold!)
                      cheers thats all.
                      Kevin Nemrava -token Canadian

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                      • #41
                        Holy ****************,this thread started a year ago!
                        Great transaction with: Jaytee123,Adam Poland, untoldguitarist and archdevil

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                        • #42
                          Kinda sounds like your bandmates are a little on the one way side. All them .......nothing for you. They better be monster players for the ego's that they're sportin'. I'd dump em'. There are a whole lot of great players out there that have they're **************** together.
                          "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
                          - Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)


                          Believe it or not, the name of our band is YOUR MOM. Click here to check us out.

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                          • #43
                            anyone else?
                            Great transaction with: Jaytee123,Adam Poland, untoldguitarist and archdevil

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by SG-DAWG
                              anyone else?



                              when I work with my own band as the "feature", as the band leader, I hire sidemen(usually the same familiar ones) at a fair wage to back me up...I keep the rest of the purse for the booking, and my troubles....sometimes that's good,, sometimes that's bad...

                              i usually furnish the entire backline, PA, lighting, and show up early to load it in and set it up...occasionally I may ask someone I know to bring something specific to make it a bit easier on me(a mic or speaker stands,or chords, ect..) especially if I know they have it and don't mind bringing it, or have specific requirements for their own gear(subject to my approval of course)..

                              they all help me strike the stage at the end of the night and get it back in the truck...then I pay them their cash...

                              if I'm being hired as a sideman... well,,, everything is negotiable..it never hurts to ask for the money,, the worse thing that can happen is they say NO.....

                              I've been in situations where there was not an equitable split of work , responsibilities, and such as pertaining to schlepping the gear in and out, bookings, and the PA ownership, it's ALWAYS eventually caused problems...

                              ... I must say,,, at the very least, in your situation,, you supervise, and let them all carry and set up under your guidance, both in and out... ... atleast that may help you somewhat to become more appreciated.....and give you a break with something worthwhile...
                              Columbia SC, USA
                              bluesman at large/musician for hire
                              current passport-no travel restrictions

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                              • #45
                                man, id hate to be in a band with most of you guys.

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