2 guitarists in a band - volume?

[zinzin]

i wonder how you guys set the volumes in bands that have 2 guitarist when playing live.

for example: guitarist 1 plays rhythm, simple chords...

guitarist 2 plays chords, fills and lead

 

do you:

put the volume for guit. 1 lower than for guit. 2, so the fills are more heard and let guit. 2 kick in a boost-pedal for leads

 

or do you:

have the volumes for both guit. set the same? and guit. 1 plays less or

[tlbonehead]

 

Originally posted by zinzin i wonder how you guys set the volumes in bands that have 2 guitarist when playing live. for example: guitarist 1 plays rhythm, simple chords... guitarist 2 plays chords, fills and lead   do you: put the volume for guit. 1 lower than for guit. 2, so the fills are more heard and let guit. 2 kick in a boost-pedal for leads   or do you: have the volumes for both guit. set the same? and guit. 1 plays less or

[KipH]

Me and our band's other guitarist have decided to trade off certain solos. I am basically lead, but at times we alternate solos in songs that have multiple solos. I feel this is a good way to not piss him off volume wise (always being lower in the mix) and in terms of feeling important (yeah, everyone in the band is equally as important, but we all know that during a solo, the soloist obviously stands out and is heard above everyone else).

 

Our problem is not having any volume pedals. I make runs to the amp right now when necessary. Dropping off on the volume knob is no good since it does take some punch out of your tone. We're dealing with it, but ideally we'll both get volume pedals

 

Anyway.. I would just turn the lead up slightly more for now. You may also want to try giving the lead a more mid/high tone setting on the amp than the rhythem player. Me and our other guitarist do this. He likes a tone with a lot of lows, and I like a very crunchy, mid boosted tone. It cuts through much more during solos and does not overpower him out of solos. It's a nice balance.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by KipH Me and our band's other guitarist have decided to trade off certain solos. I am basically lead, but at times we alternate solos in songs that have multiple solos. I feel this is a good way to not piss him off volume wise (always being lower in the mix) and in terms of feeling important (yeah, everyone in the band is equally as important, but we all know that during a solo, the soloist obviously stands out and is heard above everyone else). Our problem is not having any volume pedals. I make runs to the amp right now when necessary. Dropping off on the volume knob is no good since it does take some punch out of your tone. We're dealing with it, but ideally we'll both get volume pedals Anyway.. I would just turn the lead up slightly more for now. You may also want to try giving the lead a more mid/high tone setting on the amp than the rhythem player. Me and our other guitarist do this. He likes a tone with a lot of lows, and I like a very crunchy, mid boosted tone. It cuts through much more during solos and does not overpower him out of solos. It's a nice balance.

All guitars are different,but I always dial in my rhythm volume and tone on my amp with my guitar's volume on about 5-6 and the tone on about 7 or so.(all guitars are a little different) That gives me some room. I also have a footswitchable adjustable solo boost on my amp that is very handy. But a clean boost or EQ in the loop will work fine too.

[zinzin]

for playing lead, i think the solutions are rather simple and varied: boost-pedal, eq-pedal, volume pedal ecc.

 

but how about those little fills within the verse for example. when git. 1 plays simple chords and git. 2 a little lead fill, you won't kick in a pedal everytime, won't you?

is that where playing in different registers (octave higher) or different amp settings come in and make those little one-note-fills make heard over the rhytm guitarist?

 

i have never played with a second guitarist but soon i will have to, therefore my question and insecurity...

[loner22]

I noticed that pro bands also use some EQing to get the guitar mix right; i.e. both guitars being equally loud, using solo boosts, but rhythm guitar has a more scooped/bassy tone, while lead gtr has less bass, fatter mids, etc. Presence/highs are a bit tougher, though...

[J Kylez]

Well, I deal with 3 guitars at times and this is what we do.

 

We all sing and so when it isn't necessary to utilize 3 guitars there are only 2 playing. Although at times 3 are in the mix at once.

 

Our 3rd guitar player sings the most. He is a strong singer and a mediocre guitarist. He uses a very scooped sound. On the songs he plays it is mostly backup rhythm. Our sound man leaves him back a bit in the mix. This mixes well with the other guitars and fattens the sound up. Many times instead of playing rhythm he will play some background obscure guitar parts. He has a BOSS GT-6 and has programs to adjust his sound accordingly. This really makes some of the songs and sets us apart from other bands in the area.

 

The other 2 guitarists including myself are the main guitarists. We also have a handful of songs that we just sing but 90% of the time we are both playing. Oh yeah, he does do some keyboard work to but that's another topic.

 

We have very different tones. He has a more of a semi-scooped chugging bass along with some crystal high tones sound. I have more of a less bassy/high sound with smooth mids. When we play together at equal volumes the sound mixes together great on it's own. You can easily hear the nuances of both instruments. I play about 60-70% of the lead work and he does the other 30%. We both boost slightly on stage for solo's and our sound operator takes care of the rest out front.

 

As far as fills and such..... If it is involved I will boost. But if I don't it tends to be heard anyway. Like I said our sounds are fairly different but complement each other well. We tend to stay out of each others way too. We use different styles and tend to voice things differently to create the space it needs.

 

I should add that we don't play very loudly either. Or at least we try not to. Just enough to be heard over the drums. Our rigs are the stage monitors for the guitars. The IEM's are changing this even more.

 

I think a lot of the separation needs to be done from the stage before the FOH. Then again, it's just my opinioin.

[Scodiddly]

You can always tell real professionals when you're mixing FOH, since they mix themselves really well onstage. Sometimes you'll set a mix and then it won't have to change for the rest of the set!

 

For quick volume changes you can usually just use an EQ pedal as a preset 2nd volume level, or have a designated "I'm playing a lead now" overdrive pedal with the output set a bit higher. The guitarist I usually play with has a Digitech preamp with a special 6-db-louder footswitch on the big foot controller - he uses it a lot when doing solos, even as the only guitarist in the band.

 

You might also look into guitar volume knob options. Fender-type guitars are often modded with a little "treble bypass" cap around the volume knob to keep the brightness up when the volume is turned down. Active electronics keep the tone the same at any volume level, too.

[Tommy Tune]

Usually, what we do is tell each other if we think one guy is too loud on stage. That helps the sound guy do his job. My bass player may look at me and say "You're a little loud." I usually say........"You think so?" and laugh but I turn it down a bit. Since I'm on his side of the stage, He's my check. We work well together in that aspect. Since I do most of the singing and play no leads at all, my guitar volume is always lower in the mix. That's where it belongs. It's there for color and to carry the rhythm of the song during leads. There are songs that I don't play on at all until the lead comes up. I don't worry about not being heard. That's what the sound guy is there for. I only need to hear what I'm doing on stage and that's not gonna take 100 watts to do that. Besides that, I get to showboat when I'm singing and I take full advantage of that. LOL. The lead guitarists in our band is always out front because those little fills have to be heard. That can actually make or break the song. It get's a little trickier when you switch leads. The soundman really has to be on his game. If he's not paying attention and not ready for the switch, he could miss half the lead. That's never good. Besides that, your other guitarist has to know to come down in the mix when you go up or you get into a volume battle. Again, not good. It's all dynamics.

 

I think that gear has alot to do with it too. I have a Trace Elliott Super Tramp. I put it on a stand. It helps me to hear better at lower volumes. It's a 100 watt combo amp and never has been anywhere near cranked. It has 3 Channels (really 4). It has a clean and a dirty channel. Then it has a boost for each one as well as a reverb control and an additional control for a little more gain. The boost or 3rd channel helps when I start a song and I'm all alone. It gives me the little extra that I need so that I'm not buried. Once the band kicks in, I keep it there if the song is heavy. I step it back to keep my end down in the mix if it is not. That adds to the dynamics of the song. It creates texture or intensity if it's used right. For me, it's a matter of knowing when and where to be louder. Thank God, my amp affords me the luxury to do that.

 

 

[zinzin]

thanks a lot to everyone for the very usefull advices.