CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 2, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 2, 2007 Had a listen yesterday to some of the JBL PRX powered speakers. The 15"+1" PRX515P and the 15" 3-way PRX535P Very impressive. Nice package...light and small for a 15". I'd have no problem using these for the typical bar gig setup with a single-18" sub under them. Even alone the low-end response was tight and focused...typical JBL. Definitely worthy of consideration. The PRX512 was $900 at GC. I forgot to look at the price on the 535P. They didn't have any PRX512M wedges to try...that's what I'm most interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 2, 2007 Members Share Posted February 2, 2007 and appropriately powered too!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 2, 2007 Author CMS Author Share Posted February 2, 2007 and appropriately powered too!!! Yes! 400w LF, 100w HF (150w MF for the 3-way). They cranked them up, it's a large store with several rooms, and I went out into the guitar area, and it was drowning out the wankers! You don't have to overpower to get good sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 2, 2007 Members Share Posted February 2, 2007 Yes! 400w LF, 100w HF (150w MF for the 3-way). They cranked them up, it's a large store with several rooms, and I went out into the guitar area, and it was drowning out the wankers! You don't have to overpower to get good sound. Absolutely, and it keeps the warranty claims down as well. Classic example of do what they do, not what they claim is possible. Why don't they power it with 800-1000 watts? Because it really isn't a good idea in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 One fellow at anothr sound company in Vegas was telling me that they are his new fav's for smaller situations or fills. I can't wait to here them myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarharv52 Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 and appropriately powered too!!! I bet it will be interesting to see how much power some people will claim you need to push the MXR speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members der oxenrig Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 So would these be a good lightweight alternative to QSC HPR series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DJ Swydez Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 I forgot to look at the price on the 535P.QUOTE] $1199.00 @ GuitarCenter.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 Had a listen yesterday to some of the JBL PRX powered speakers. The 15"+1" PRX515P and the 15" 3-way PRX535P Very impressive. Nice package...light and small for a 15". I'd have no problem using these for the typical bar gig setup with a single-18" sub under them. Even alone the low-end response was tight and focused...typical JBL. Definitely worthy of consideration. The PRX512 was $900 at GC. I forgot to look at the price on the 535P. They didn't have any PRX512M wedges to try...that's what I'm most interested in. Sounds like they are the successors to the JBL EON15 G2's? I've enjoyed mine though they seem to be oft-maligned here on this forum... Perhaps now Mackie will come out w/a successor to their nasty-sounding SRM 450's to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 Sounds like they are the successors to the JBL EON15 G2's? So does anybody care if their boxes are plastic or wood or whatever ... as long as they are lightweight and work well? Preferences and why?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 Sounds like they are the successors to the JBL EON15 G2's? So does anybody care if their boxes are plastic or wood or whatever ... as long as they are lightweight and work well? Preferences and why?? Don - Doesn't matter to me - as long as they are lightweight and work well, just like you say... But it seems the laws of physics dictate that no matter how nice the plastic-molded jobbies sound, the wooden cabinets will always outdo them in sound quality... but will always be heavier as well. It's a tradeoff folks have to be aware of & be able to deal with - a tradeoff I can live with, for now: I like the lightweight portability of my EON15 G2's. However, as I look to expand my PA system - to add monitors as well - I realize that the powered/active spkr. approach does mean pwr. cords all over the place... maybe I'll consider a lightweight power amp (QSC PLX1804?) w/lightweight cabs, like the EV ZX5's or whatever Peavey has in a lightweight, passive cabinet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 My 2 cents, though I've not heard the new PRX boxes, is that JBL probably nailed it. Light weight, cabinet with decent power, light weight drivers, the acoustic properties of wood and the protection of a plastic coating. The only thing I don't get is the 70 degree vertical dispersion. Seems like a waste to me. At least the 12" boxes can be aimed down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 But it seems the laws of physics dictate that no matter how nice the plastic-molded jobbies sound, the wooden cabinets will always outdo them in sound quality... but will always be heavier as well. It doesn't matter what the material is ... what matters is how it's braced. It's generally easier to do with wood but then again you need to look at it pound for pound. I'm sure these new lightweight plywoods flex more than more traditional plywoods and will require much better bracing schemes. When we switched from the old 18mm ply we used to use to a more premium birch 12mm plywood our SP cabinets got lighter and stiffer because we added some bracing but still lowered the weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 The only thing I don't get is the 70 degree vertical dispersion. Seems like a waste to me. At least the 12" boxes can be aimed down. It's fine for flown systems where you can actually use the geometry to your advantage ... but ground stacked or on a pole (even tilted) that's a huge vertical. It will probably cause more problems then it solves as most times you will be spraying the ceiling with sound that will just bounce off and cause problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 The only thing I don't get is the 70 degree vertical dispersion. Seems like a waste to me. At least the 12" boxes can be aimed down. It's fine for flown systems where you can actually use the geometry to your advantage ... but ground stacked or on a pole (even tilted) that's a huge vertical. It will probably cause more problems then it solves as most times you will be spraying the ceiling with sound that will just bounce off and cause problems. Can someone pls. break down exactly what "70 degree vertical dispersion" means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 Can someone pls. break down exactly what "70 degree vertical dispersion" means? A circle is 360 degrees (this would be like sound coming out of a subwoofer. Low frequencies are omnidirectional - all directions equally). Design of the box will alter this, with more coming out of the front of the box, but the point is you can't control low frequencies so much. At around 500 Hz and up you can start "aiming" the sound. That's where the horn lens comes into play. A lot of cabinets are 90 degrees horizontal. This is your basic right like a corner. Sound is allowed to go 45 degrees to the left and 45 degrees to the right. This pattern is wide so it will cover more area side to side, but at the expense of "throw" or the ability to hear the sound farther back. Kind of like a shot gun compared to a bullet. The shot gun will hit a wider area, but won't travel that far. So for vertical it's the same thing. A 70 degree vertical means you have a 35 degree angle of sound going up and 35 degree going down. The down is nice for covering people up close to the speakers so the sound doesn't shoot over their heads. The up is largely wasted as the horn should already be up 7 feet or more to get over the crowd. So you end up sending sound into the ceiling. With low and/or hard ceilings this can make for a tough time as sound hits the ceiling and bounces back towards the ground. Electro-Voice is one company that puts an asymetrical horn in some of their boxes. It has a steeper down angle than up. There are also some boxes with multiple pole sockets in them with one of them designed to physically aim the speaker down slightly. Since this puts the cabinet off balance, this only works with smaller, lighter boxes though. Hence the 12" JBL PRX has this feature, but the 15" doesn't. There are also "rotatable" horn lenses in some boxes. While this can be helpful, it's not perfect. For instance if you have a 90 x 50 rotatable horn, if you want tighter horizontal dispersion, you would turn it to horizontal of 50, but now you have a 90 degree vertical. As mentioned, this may be good for flying the speaker, but not so much in a pole mount application. I've often wondered why manufacturers don't sell different horn lenses for their boxes (at least readily available anyway) and make them easier to swap out. I'd love to be able to pop in a horn lens depending on the room and how many boxes per side I was going to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 A circle is 360 degrees (this would be like sound coming out of a subwoofer. Low frequencies are omnidirectional - all directions equally). Design of the box will alter this, with more coming out of the front of the box, but the point is you can't control low frequencies so much.At around 500 Hz and up you can start "aiming" the sound. That's where the horn lens comes into play. A lot of cabinets are 90 degrees horizontal. This is your basic right like a corner. Sound is allowed to go 45 degrees to the left and 45 degrees to the right. This pattern is wide so it will cover more area side to side, but at the expense of "throw" or the ability to hear the sound farther back. Kind of like a shot gun compared to a bullet. The shot gun will hit a wider area, but won't travel that far.So for vertical it's the same thing. A 70 degree vertical means you have a 35 degree angle of sound going up and 35 degree going down. The down is nice for covering people up close to the speakers so the sound doesn't shoot over their heads. The up is largely wasted as the horn should already be up 7 feet or more to get over the crowd. So you end up sending sound into the ceiling. With low and/or hard ceilings this can make for a tough time as sound hits the ceiling and bounces back towards the ground.Electro-Voice is one company that puts an asymetrical horn in some of their boxes. It has a steeper down angle than up. There are also some boxes with multiple pole sockets in them with one of them designed to physically aim the speaker down slightly. Since this puts the cabinet off balance, this only works with smaller, lighter boxes though. Hence the 12" JBL PRX has this feature, but the 15" doesn't.There are also "rotatable" horn lenses in some boxes. While this can be helpful, it's not perfect. For instance if you have a 90 x 50 rotatable horn, if you want tighter horizontal dispersion, you would turn it to horizontal of 50, but now you have a 90 degree vertical. As mentioned, this may be good for flying the speaker, but not so much in a pole mount application.I've often wondered why manufacturers don't sell different horn lenses for their boxes (at least readily available anyway) and make them easier to swap out. I'd love to be able to pop in a horn lens depending on the room and how many boxes per side I was going to use. Nice explanation. To add to your shotgun vs. bullet analogy, I think of the horn lens as a water hose nozzle. You can adjust the spray very wide for great coverage, but you loose throw. If you want to hit a narrow target at a greater distance with your water blast (let's say a cat that's crapping in your flowerbed), you'd tighten the pattern and get more throw (and blast that pesky cat out of your flower garden....not that I'd ever do something like that;) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I've often wondered why manufacturers don't sell different horn lenses for their boxes (at least readily available anyway) and make them easier to swap out. I'd love to be able to pop in a horn lens depending on the room and how many boxes per side I was going to use. One reason is you also have to rework the crossover. When you put the same amount of power into a more concentrated angle it gets louder. If you just turn down the horn you will get differenct frequancy response in the crossover range. A properly setup DSP could handle this. With that in mind ... you can swap the 60 degree and 90 degree horns in our QW series speakers (direct bolt in). btw ... the current SP speakers have asymetrical horns that take the normal 40 degree vertical dispersion and aim 10 degrees up and 30 degrees down. That way you don't spray a bunch of sound over your audience's heads and waste it (or worse). http://www.peavey.com/products/browse.cfm/action/drill/cat/97/begin/1/SPSeries.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I didn't realize the new SP series was designed that way. I'm glad Peavey "upgraded" the SP all the way around. I've not heard the new stuff, but it seems to be well thought out and made of better materials than the stuff from just a couple of years ago. So why don't more manufacturers use the downward angle theory? I can understand it for boxes that are flyable, but for something like the Yamaha Club series and other "pole mount only" this would seem to make sense. That said, I'm constantly amazed at the weekend warriors out there that aren't using speaker stands and are putting the cabinet on top of a sub woofer, a pool table, etc. with the horn hitting you right in the chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 5, 2007 Author CMS Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 My 2 cents, though I've not heard the new PRX boxes, is that JBL probably nailed it. Light weight, cabinet with decent power, light weight drivers, the acoustic properties of wood and the protection of a plastic coating.The only thing I don't get is the 70 degree vertical dispersion. Seems like a waste to me. At least the 12" boxes can be aimed down. It should be a plus for the 12" boxes, as they are shaped for use as floor wedges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 5, 2007 Author CMS Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 Sounds like they are the successors to the JBL EON15 G2's? So does anybody care if their boxes are plastic or wood or whatever ... as long as they are lightweight and work well? Preferences and why?? All things being equal (dangerous assumption) sonically, I'd prefer plastic for its easy maintenance and resistance to moisture accidents. But as you point out, it's not a simple matter to make wood and plastic boxes sound the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 5, 2007 Author CMS Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 So would these be a good lightweight alternative to QSC HPR series? Seem to be good competitive boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 5, 2007 Author CMS Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 Sounds like they are the successors to the JBL EON15 G2's? I've enjoyed mine though they seem to be oft-maligned here on this forum... Perhaps now Mackie will come out w/a successor to their nasty-sounding SRM 450's to keep up. SRM450's sound just fine if you don't drive the snot out of them. Indeed the EON's are often beat up as well. The PRX as far as I know are simply a powered version of the mid-line MRX series. I think they fill a really great slot in terms of price and performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 SRM450's sound just fine if you don't drive the snot out of them. Indeed the EON's are often beat up as well. The PRX as far as I know are simply a powered version of the mid-line MRX series. I think they fill a really great slot in terms of price and performance. Aye -So meanwhile, while we're tooling around here in JBL-Land: I wonder do the passive "mid-line" MRX series sound the same as these new powered PRX series? Also - do the budget-line JRX series really sound that bad? Conversely, are the very expensive SRX series cabinets worth the extra bread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 5, 2007 Author CMS Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 Aye -So meanwhile, while we're tooling around here in JBL-Land:I wonder do the passive "mid-line" MRX series sound the same as these new powered PRX series?Also - do the budget-line JRX series really sound that bad? Conversely, are the very expensive SRX series cabinets worth the extra bread? 1. Pretty much, if you power them the same...bi-amped. 2. Pretty much the same as any other entry unit. 3. Absolutely. The difference between sounding like every other bar band, and sounding like serious musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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