Members GCDEF Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 So we got a new bass player. His amp doesn't have a line out. Our sound guy had him run his bass to a direct box, and from the 1/4" out on the direct box back to his amp, then from the XLR out of the box to the mixer. Essentially that had his bass running straight from instrument to PA. That seemed like a less than optimum way to do it because his amp plays no part in the sound from the PA. I heard the band sound as a whole was excellent, so I assume it couldn't have sounded too bad. Is this a normal, or at least accepted method for running a bass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashivraj Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 This can boil down to personal preference, but generally people use a pre-amp signal (i.e. the way you've described, bass straight into DI box) - sometimes people use a mic on the bass cab, and blend the two... AS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 A lot of folks take the bass to the PA exactly as you described. If you don't do a lot of effects processing or count on electronics in your amp to color the sound, this should be fine (and is preferable by me!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Square Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 A lot of folks take the bass to the PA exactly as you described. If you don't do a lot of effects processing or count on electronics in your amp to color the sound, this should be fine (and is preferable by me!). I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted February 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 Seemed to work. Just seemed kind of weird to me as any sound shaping done by his amp would have been lost that way. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ATOMICDOG1 Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I prefer having a clean uneffected signal from the bass di. Then I usually have a mic on the cabinet to add the effected, eq'd, and speaker cab sound to the original instrument sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 The reason a pre-eq signal is generally preferred is because the low end of a PA is considerably different and to take the signal eq'd for a 410 bass cabinet may compromise the sound the engineer could get when using real subs and also contending with fittingthe bass into the mix. The more professional the sound company and act, the more likely the signal is to be pre. At some point, the PA may also take a signal miced off a bass cabinet too if that's the tone that is desired, then mixed with the DI signal. There are exceptions, but I would say this covers 80-90%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 My prefered way to DI bass is right off the bass. What the player hears through the onstage rig is a completely different world than what I need at the house. I typically also mic the rig onstage and blend the two, but the DI is ALWAYS right off the bass. Most professional engineers prefer this method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members basschaplain Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 to take the signal eq'd for a 410 bass cabinet may compromise the sound the engineer could get ...The more professional the sound company and act, the more likely the signal is to be pre. At some point, the PA may also take a signal miced off a bass cabinet too if that's the tone that is desired, then mixed with the DI signal. When my bass is in the system, it's always done one of those two ways-usually just from my DI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 5, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 DI plus an SM-57 or e-609 or other decent mic, with the mix using mostly the DI sound. I'm not a big fan of using 'flavored' DI boxes like the Sansamp as the direct sound, because many bassists tend to mix for their stage sound which brings us back to having too much low end mud. Having said that though, the Countryman Type 85 is a great DI for live and stage use. The little bit of tone coloration it lends is very nice for many styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashivraj Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I've never mixed mic and DI before - does anyone find any phasing issues between the two? And if so, is it easily corrected by reversing phase on one of the two? AS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.Talent Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I prefer to use a DI as well, because (like was mentioned before) EQ for FOH and monitors is very different than what the players may do for their cabinet(s)... rarely do the players complain as long as the DIs are transparent/or clean.. For example: Whirlwind DIs sound good... Behringer DIs rob the tone, especially in the low-end.Sometimes we use the DI on the player's amp- as long as its clean and has a ground lift and pad or attenuator if necessary... sometimes we mic the cab.. phasing is not an issue because the signals are very different.We'll start with what the players prefers.. If it works, great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delboyz2003 Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 So we got a new bass player. His amp doesn't have a line out. Our sound guy had him run his bass to a direct box, and from the 1/4" out on the direct box back to his amp, then from the XLR out of the box to the mixer. Essentially that had his bass running straight from instrument to PA. That seemed like a less than optimum way to do it because his amp plays no part in the sound from the PA. I heard the band sound as a whole was excellent, so I assume it couldn't have sounded too bad. Is this a normal, or at least accepted method for running a bass? Yes ive played with a lot of bands in the last 20 years and that is the way i would di the bass straight to pa desk.this gives an unprocessed sound and allows the sound engineer to place it in the mix with the bass drum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I've never mixed mic and DI before - does anyone find any phasing issues between the two? And if so, is it easily corrected by reversing phase on one of the two?AS Occassionally and usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members preacherman672 Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 The reason a pre-eq signal is generally preferred is because the low end of a PA is considerably different and to take the signal eq'd for a 410 bass cabinet may compromise the sound the engineer could get when using real subs and also contending with fittingthe bass into the mix.The more professional the sound company and act, the more likely the signal is to be pre. At some point, the PA may also take a signal miced off a bass cabinet too if that's the tone that is desired, then mixed with the DI signal.There are exceptions, but I would say this covers 80-90%. +1 If the sound system can reliably support frequencies in the 35-45 hertz range then the sound will be drastically different FOH than at a 4x10 bass cab which has to be heavily eq'd to get those frequencies. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 As a player my preference is to have my rig in the signal chain. My Eq is mostly set to flat or very simple boosts or cuts, I use an active bass, so I could run it direct, I just like to run it this way (having had many soundguys royally screw my tone, but that can happen with either setup) As a sound guy I give the player the options, if he/he has a preference, I'll give it a try. If I can't get the tone to fit, I'll try the other way, that's what sound checks (or A-2's) are for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 As a player my preference is to have my rig in the signal chain. My Eq is mostly set to flat or very simple boosts or cuts, I use an active bass, so I could run it direct, I just like to run it this way (having had many soundguys royally screw my tone, but that can happen with either setup) If it's flat then what's the difference, other than when you go for more or less volume onstage you {censored} up the house mix?Active or passive bass makes no difference, either can be run to a DI.A bad sound guy can {censored} you up no matter what you send him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rxnet Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 just ran bass & guitar & drums direct into the PA via a DI & we received many compliments on the sound (first time for me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 Let's see bass DI Ampeg has one with a EQ section, Sansamp has one with EQ and slight OD on it. Which add's a lttile color to your sound if you perfer not to have the straight bass DI. Heck some guys even like to use a bass Pod with a DI just depend how you want the FOH bass to sound . I use a Sansamp mself because I want the crowd to hear the OD bass on certain songs I play on the bass but that's me. I might be dead wrong for doing it but it works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 I'm a fan of the Radial J48 for bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted February 7, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 just ran bass & guitar & drums direct into the PA via a DI & we received many compliments on the sound (first time for me) Unless you're talking acoustic guitar, I'm going to assume some kind of modeling or processing was on the electric guitar before it got to the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joel77 Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 In most of the small clubs we're in this time of year, I prefer to run DI only to the PA, as there's plenty of amp level coming off the stage. In doing large outdoor events, we may put a mic on the cab and blend. Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Majoria Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 We don't even use an amp on stage. We just run bass to simple effects processor to DI to the mixer. Hey, it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 7, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Let's see bass DI Ampeg has one with a EQ section, Sansamp has one with EQ and slight OD on it. Which add's a lttile color to your sound if you perfer not to have the straight bass DI. Heck some guys even like to use a bass Pod with a DI just depend how you want the FOH bass to sound . I use a Sansamp mself because I want the crowd to hear the OD bass on certain songs I play on the bass but that's me. I might be dead wrong for doing it but it works for me. This is why I feel it's critical to use both a clean DI and mic'd cabinet signal. For some reason the bass often gets short shrift, as if the tone doesn't matter. The guitarist is given boatloads of leeway and 'insists' on having his tone duplicated...everyone walks on eggshells around him, while the bassist is supposed to be content with "thump thump thump" all night. Sorry, doesn't fly. I'd like to see you tell any guitarist, "hey, we're gonna run you direct tonite". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted February 7, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 This is why I feel it's critical to use both a clean DI and mic'd cabinet signal. For some reason the bass often gets short shrift, as if the tone doesn't matter. The guitarist is given boatloads of leeway and 'insists' on having his tone duplicated...everyone walks on eggshells around him, while the bassist is supposed to be content with "thump thump thump" all night. Sorry, doesn't fly. I'd like to see you tell any guitarist, "hey, we're gonna run you direct tonite". That's the crux of my question. No doubt guitar amps add more to the guitar sound than the bass amp does, but plugging instrument direct to PA takes away pretty much all control of the sound away from the bass player, which as a guitar player, sounds unacceptable to me. The bass player was hearing his own amp on stage and I was told the house sound was excellent, so I guess it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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