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  • #16






    Quote Originally Posted by ChiroVette
    View Post

    To display my ignorance for all to see, why not? Intuitively, I assumed that you would want to send as much as possible of what you are sending to the FOH to the monitors.




    Compression in the monitors increases the potential for feedback. My SL 16.0.2 is the same. I can configure the AUXs as post gate but pre EQ, compression, and faders or post gate, EQ, compression but pre faders -- ie, if I want EQ in the AUXs I get compression as well. I asked Presonus for a new option -- post gate and EQ but pre compression and faders. We'll see.
    ...dave

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    • #17
      We have used two JBL 255s subs for over 6 years and they have been fantastic. They are a little overkill for most bars, but they are perfect for outdoors.
      Everybody is terminally ill.

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      • #18






        Quote Originally Posted by capitalist
        View Post

        We have used two JBL 255s subs for over 6 years and they have been fantastic. They are a little overkill for most bars, but they are perfect for outdoors.




        The MP-255 is not related to anything that we are discussing here. It's a low level, mediocre performing, heavy MI grade product that has less than 1/2 the performance of the specific products being discussed.
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

        Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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        • #19
          OP - You are close enough to Sacramento and the Bay Area that you ought to be able to watch Craigslist and buy much of your equipment used. You could save a lot of money that way.

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          • #20






            Quote Originally Posted by Pinkycramps
            View Post

            Well, my latest project (an ambitious cover band) is getting off the ground, and we have assembled some pretty decent talent (well, I'm in there... but everyone else is pretty good).



            The bass player (long time freind and music partner) and I are getting ready to invest in the PA system, since we don't have one right now. We want a versitle system large enough to play outdoors (concert in the park is a big thing here..) along with about any size club or larger bar. Here is what we are looking at:



            Mains+ subs: JBL PRX 25 & PRX 418S. 2 ea.

            Amps: not sure yet. likely Crown or QSC amps to match - whatever power is recomended.. but it's bound to be a bunch. Any advice here? I'm reading the "What I run and why thread", but I'd like direct feedback on this system from anyone who has experience with it.



            ALSO:

            What I don't know enough about are monitors. For the mixer board. I know we need at least 16 channels, but I want to make sure we can get our own monitor mixes. Do we need seperate sub mixers for that? how does that work, (for either wedges or IEM)? Any advise on that?



            thanks people.




            Personally speaking, and given the "variabilty" of the gigs you said you'll be playing (indoors/outdoors/ crowd-sizes) I'd look at striking up a relationship with a local-area soundman. You show up, you play, you have fun, then you go home. No set-up, no tear-down, no transport and storage, no maintenance, and no major cash outlay. That'll give you a good idea of "what works" for you, and then you'll be better equipped to make that big decision on whether you want to run your own sound, or not.
            Veni, Vidi, Velcro;

            (I came, I saw, I stuck around)

            Comment


            • #21






              Quote Originally Posted by agedhorse
              View Post

              The MP-255 is not related to anything that we are discussing here. It's a low level, mediocre performing, heavy MI grade product that has less than 1/2 the performance of the specific products being discussed.




              Sorry aged, I have a reasonable idea just from the context but specifically what does "MI" stand for?
              ...dave

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              • #22






                Quote Originally Posted by dbMontana
                View Post

                Sorry aged, I have a reasonable idea just from the context but specifically what does "MI" stand for?




                Music Industry (as opposed to Pro Audio Industry)
                -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

                Comment


                • #23






                  Quote Originally Posted by agedhorse
                  View Post

                  Music Industry (as opposed to Pro Audio Industry)




                  So the PRX, K, KW, and DRS cabinets are all Music Industry level but not Pro Audio Industry standard? Just trying to clarify.

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                  • #24






                    Quote Originally Posted by agedhorse
                    View Post

                    Music Industry (as opposed to Pro Audio Industry)




                    So the PRX, K, KW, and DRS cabinets are all Music Industry level but not Pro Audio Industry standard? Just trying to clarify.

                    Comment


                    • #25






                      Quote Originally Posted by ChiroVette
                      View Post

                      So the PRX, K, KW, and DRS cabinets are all Music Industry level but not Pro Audio Industry standard? Just trying to clarify.




                      Yep....



                      But....



                      All the speakers you listed are way closer sounding to pro level gear than anything ever was before. The new powered and processed speaker lines really raised the sound quality/ dollar ratio big time.



                      Meyer UPA-1P's are some pretty great sounding speakers (and go for around 3-4K a box). Most people would be able to tell the difference in sound quality IMHO between a band playing a Meyer setup and a PRX setup; however, no one would every A/B the same band on 2 systems in a night.



                      People would not say a band sounded bad BECAUSE they were using a PRX system if the band actually performed well.



                      IMHO at the level of a PRX system, the quality of the mix and the quality of the performers is going to WAY outweigh any performance difference between a Meyer rig and a PRX rig (not to say I wouldn't want a Meyer rig ).



                      The bigger difference I see is that Pro Audio speakers tend to have more industrial connectors, are stackable/arrayable and are specifically designed to be able to extend to larger audiences.



                      Most MI gear is designed for the masses (ie those of us that will never play to a crowd of 1000 or more people). MI gear gives up some performance, some features, and almost always the ability to scale in the interest of ease of use, weight, and price..... all things that are of less importance to a Pro Audio guy that is doing sound for national acts.
                      With Greater Knowledge Comes Greater Understanding

                      Comment


                      • #26






                        Quote Originally Posted by ChiroVette
                        View Post

                        So the PRX, K, KW, and DXR/DSR cabinets are all Music Industry level but not Pro Audio Industry standard? Just trying to clarify.




                        Yes, this is correct. It has to do with the price-performance ratio at a given price point, the application, the reliability metrics, the specific feature set, and the distribution. That said, the markets are blurring somewhat, the SRX-700 series is a crossover product between Pro Audio and MI markets for example.



                        Product support is generally different between the different markets as well.
                        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                        Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Wow lots of awesome information. This, of course, begs the question, would I be better off then saving for higher end gear than PRX?



                          I think I remember someone, maybe it was agedhorse, describing current, modern MI gear as sounding good enough or getting close enough to a very high level sound without the high price point of Pro Gear. Andy, I could be mis-quoting you but if I understood you correctly, MI gear such as PRX gets you very close to high end sound (like 80% - a number I am making up) but that each bump up in a few percent in terms of sound quality comes at a price of multiples in terms of dollars invested. So if I am understanding what I kind of sort of remember, spending about $10K on a PRX based system with a mixer in that class (SL, A&H, etc.) will get me, say about 80% there, but to squeeze out another ten percent, say to get to 90% "there," in terms of high quality, I would have to spend a lot more, and that for a band such as mine, the law of diminishing returns would kick in? (Paraphrase, obviously, and not quoting).

                          Comment


                          • #28






                            Quote Originally Posted by ChiroVette
                            View Post

                            Wow lots of awesome information. This, of course, begs the question, would I be better off then saving for higher end gear than PRX?



                            I think I remember someone, maybe it was agedhorse, describing current, modern MI gear as sounding good enough or getting close enough to a very high level sound without the high price point of Pro Gear. Andy, I could be mis-quoting you but if I understood you correctly, MI gear such as PRX gets you very close to high end sound (like 80% - a number I am making up) but that each bump up in a few percent in terms of sound quality comes at a price of multiples in terms of dollars invested. So if I am understanding what I kind of sort of remember, spending about $10K on a PRX based system with a mixer in that class (SL, A&H, etc.) will get me, say about 80% there, but to squeeze out another ten percent, say to get to 90% "there," in terms of high quality, I would have to spend a lot more, and that for a band such as mine, the law of diminishing returns would kick in? (Paraphrase, obviously, and not quoting).




                            I think it makes perfect sense to look at your long-term goal, and start out by building toward that goal. Your FOH mains can always serve as monitors for your "A" rig.
                            Veni, Vidi, Velcro;

                            (I came, I saw, I stuck around)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Yes. this is essentially correct, assuming you do not need some of the features specific to the Pro market (like specific flying approaches).
                              -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                              Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

                              Comment


                              • #30






                                Quote Originally Posted by agedhorse
                                View Post

                                Yes. this is essentially correct, assuming you do not need some of the features specific to the Pro market (like specific flying approaches).




                                I definitely couldn't imagine me having any need in the immediate future for flying cabinets. I do, however, sometimes want to throw the ones I have now!









                                Quote Originally Posted by Bobby1Note
                                View Post

                                I think it makes perfect sense to look at your long-term goal, and start out by building toward that goal. Your FOH mains can always serve as monitors for your "A" rig.




                                I was thinking more in terms of resale value, which JBL is very very good in that regard. The thing I keep coming back to is that Mike Pyle and others offer great prices on MI PA gear and their "new prices" are about what the gear goes for on eBay used! lol So there is an off chance that I could buy a PRX based system markedly below retail and sell it off a year or two later at about what I paid for it because most people simply don't know that we consumers have access to dealer prices if we know how to shop.

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