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PA Newb buying/building first PA. JBL PRX425...

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  • PA Newb buying/building first PA. JBL PRX425...

    Well, my latest project (an ambitious cover band) is getting off the ground, and we have assembled some pretty decent talent (well, I'm in there... but everyone else is pretty good).



    The bass player (long time freind and music partner) and I are getting ready to invest in the PA system, since we don't have one right now. We want a versitle system large enough to play outdoors (concert in the park is a big thing here..) along with about any size club or larger bar. Here is what we are looking at:



    Mains+ subs: JBL PRX 25 & PRX 418S. 2 ea.

    Amps: not sure yet. likely Crown or QSC amps to match - whatever power is recomended.. but it's bound to be a bunch. Any advice here? I'm reading the "What I run and why thread", but I'd like direct feedback on this system from anyone who has experience with it.



    ALSO:

    What I don't know enough about are monitors. For the mixer board. I know we need at least 16 channels, but I want to make sure we can get our own monitor mixes. Do we need seperate sub mixers for that? how does that work, (for either wedges or IEM)? Any advise on that?



    thanks people.
    <div class="signaturecontainer">&quot;Hey... partner... can you reach back there and turn down your SUCK dial... Thanks...&quot;</div>

  • #2
    Any particular reason you're not looking at Powered Speakers? Seems like their ease-of-use factor alone should make them a very attractive option for your application.





    Also --- what's your total new system budget? I'm sure a few of us can put together a shopping list....
    <div class="signaturecontainer"><b><font face="Tahoma">Boston Common Band - <a href="http://www.BostonCommonBand.com" target="_blank">Boston Wedding Bands</a></font></b><font face="Tahoma"><br><b><font color="DarkRed">Sound</font></b>: <font size="1">DB Tech DVA T4's with RCF TTS18a Subs | QSC Wideline GP218 Sub for Big Events | RCF TT08a &amp; RCF ART710a Monitors</font><br><b><font color="DarkRed">Rack</font></b>: <font size="1">A&amp;H QU16 | (2) Summit Audio TLA-50 Tube Compressors | QSC PLX3602 | Furman P2400AR Voltage Regulators</font><br><b><font color="DarkRed">Lighting</font></b>: <font size="1">(8) Blizzard HOTBOX's | (2) Blizzard Weather Systems | (2) Chauvet Eclipse RGB + ADJ Hypnotic RGB &amp; Royal 3D Lasers | (4) QSpot360 Moving Heads</font><br><b><a href="http://www.BostonCommonBand.com" target="_blank"><font size="1">Newport RI Wedding Bands</font></a></b></font><br><b><font color="DarkBlue">For Sale</font></b>: <font size="2"><a href="http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/Live-Gear/FS-Rack-Gear-Tube-Compressors-and-Mackie-Quad-EQ/m-p/35983107#U35983107">Rack Gear : Tube Compressors (Live/Studio) and Mackie Quad EQ!</a></font></div>

    Comment


    • #3
      Since you mentioned "Concert In the Park" type thing.... you're going to want a bit more horsepower than what a basic / lower-end JBL system can provide.



      Here's where I'd start if I were you...





      Disclaimer : There are tons of other options out there... but don't just take it from me!







      "Poor Man's Budget PA" --- ~$6000


      Pair of QSC KW122 Tops

      over

      Pair of QSC KW181 Subs

      QSC K10's for Monitors

      Yamaha MG206C



      This rig gives you just barely enough power to do smaller outdoor shows and will sound very good indoors. For the mixer, it gives you 16 XLR ins, while also having 4 stereo channels available for iPod / keyboards run in stereo / etc.... further it has 8 channels of compression built-in. Basically a nice beginner - all around board before you start adding rack effects.



      Hooking up monitor/iem mixes is simple. Just run a cable from the Aux1,2,3,or 4 (depending on how many monitor channels you're running) to the monitor or IEM transmitter. Adjust that monitor mix using the Aux knobs on each channel strip.





      The "I'm pretty serious about this music thing" rig --- ~$10000



      Pair of DAS Audio Avant 12A

      over

      Pair of DAS Audio Avant 118A

      QSC K10's for Monitors



      Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2 Mixer (has all built-in effects/compression etc..)

      or, if you prefer to stay analog

      Allen & Heath MixWiz3 16:2

      w/ insert channel effects:

      Presonus ACP88 compressor

      use MixWiz onboard effects



      This rig will do very well for small outdoor shows and will rock indoors.





      The "We're a serious band doing serious things" Rig --- $15000+



      Meyer UPA1P tops over Meyer 500HP Subs

      or

      any other high-end brand system (KS Audio Session3, D&B, RCF TT, Vue, L-Acoustics)

      QSC K10 Monitors



      Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2 Mixer (has all built-in effects/compression etc..)

      or, if you prefer to stay analog

      APB Dynasonics ProRack-House

      w/ insert channel effects:

      Tube Compressors

      Lexicon Reverbs

      DBX Driverack 260 or similar system processor

      etc... etc...



      Welcome to the big-leagues... These systems are all scalable and can configure themselves to various venues. Pretty much like going to a concert etc...
      <div class="signaturecontainer"><b><font face="Tahoma">Boston Common Band - <a href="http://www.BostonCommonBand.com" target="_blank">Boston Wedding Bands</a></font></b><font face="Tahoma"><br><b><font color="DarkRed">Sound</font></b>: <font size="1">DB Tech DVA T4's with RCF TTS18a Subs | QSC Wideline GP218 Sub for Big Events | RCF TT08a &amp; RCF ART710a Monitors</font><br><b><font color="DarkRed">Rack</font></b>: <font size="1">A&amp;H QU16 | (2) Summit Audio TLA-50 Tube Compressors | QSC PLX3602 | Furman P2400AR Voltage Regulators</font><br><b><font color="DarkRed">Lighting</font></b>: <font size="1">(8) Blizzard HOTBOX's | (2) Blizzard Weather Systems | (2) Chauvet Eclipse RGB + ADJ Hypnotic RGB &amp; Royal 3D Lasers | (4) QSpot360 Moving Heads</font><br><b><a href="http://www.BostonCommonBand.com" target="_blank"><font size="1">Newport RI Wedding Bands</font></a></b></font><br><b><font color="DarkBlue">For Sale</font></b>: <font size="2"><a href="http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/Live-Gear/FS-Rack-Gear-Tube-Compressors-and-Mackie-Quad-EQ/m-p/35983107#U35983107">Rack Gear : Tube Compressors (Live/Studio) and Mackie Quad EQ!</a></font></div>

      Comment


      • #4
        Powered speakers are probably going to be a better choice given the questions you are asking...

        Comment


        • #5
          Save yourself a lot of grief and if you're set on JBL go PRX612M's for tops and monitors and PRX618S-XLF for subs. I like my Mackie DL1608 mixer and it will do 6 monitor mixes .

          "We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us" - Walt Kelly​

          Comment


          • #6
            Save yourself a lot of grief and if you're set on JBL go PRX612M's for tops and monitors and PRX618S-XLF for subs. I like my Mackie DL1608 mixer and it will do 6 monitor mixes .

            "We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us" - Walt Kelly​

            Comment


            • #7
              Check out the guide for goobers sticky. There's a lot of good information in there. JBL has a really good book as well as the classic Yamaha sound reinforcement handbook. I also like suggesting the Yorkville guide for it's simple wording and good tips to get started.



              "We want a versitle system large enough to play outdoors (concert in the park is a big thing here..) " filling that park is going to take way more system than you want to buy. I personally think you'd be stretching it to cover 100 people outdoors with one sub, one top per side. At least for the subs.



              Given the situation, I would highly suggest powered mains as well. A lot of complicated speaker processing/calibration is done by the engineers who know what they're doing.



              Monitors for you will likely come off the auxes. So just find a mixer with enough auxes -- wedges or IEMs.

              Comment


              • #8
                Pinky,



                As suggested above, the type of music, the expected number of listeners, and your budget will drive your decision making. With that said, a "scalable" system that you can build over time (renting extra items as needed) makes sense to lots of folks.



                I personally have picked JBL PRX 600 series active speakers for the base of my rig. I have 612m tops over 618sxlf subs as my main FOH system. I can also use the 612m in monitor or fill positions. (Using the same speaker model for tops as well as monitors gives me redundancy - if a top dies mid-show, I can replace it by stealing one of the monitors.) My plan is to eventually have four 618sxlf subs, six 612m tops/monitors, as well as a pair of 615m that I can use as tops without subs for acoustic gigs. For me, the ease of use for the active speakers (proper power, proper DSP, and easy scaleabilty) plus the light weight and reasonably compact size were plusses. JBL has better name recognition and prestige than most everything else (except at the really high end of the business). Not too many folks are going to turn up their nose at such a rig. JBL has good resale value, too. I also have some non-JBL active 12" speakers, too, for monitor and utility purposes.



                Outdoors, depending on your style of music, I think you are likely to find you need twice as many subs for a given crowd as you would need indoors. YMMV. Mark C.
                "Good tools are expensive. Cheap tools are damned expensive."

                Comment


                • #9
                  I like the DL 1608 also. Still waiting for them to fix the dynamics/aux tap points.

                  Comment


                  • #10






                    Quote Originally Posted by jlb
                    View Post

                    I like the DL 1608 also. Still waiting for them to fix the dynamics/aux tap points.




                    Whats that issue?

                    Comment


                    • #11






                      Quote Originally Posted by heath_eld
                      View Post

                      Whats that issue?






                      Comp/gate/channel eq are pre aux. I dont mind the eq so much, but comp in the monitors is not desireable for most live applications.

                      Comment


                      • #12






                        Quote Originally Posted by jlb
                        View Post

                        Comp/gate/channel eq are pre aux. I don't mind the eq so much, but comp in the monitors is not desirable for most live applications.




                        Yah, I just use the comps as peak limiters . I'm fine with the auxes being post gate and -for now - post EQ. It always amazes me that a company will design a live sound product like this without actually consulting with any live sound guys .

                        "We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us" - Walt Kelly​

                        Comment


                        • #13






                          Quote Originally Posted by jlb
                          View Post

                          Comp/gate/channel eq are pre aux. I dont mind the eq so much, but comp in the monitors is not desireable for most live applications.




                          To display my ignorance for all to see, why not? Intuitively, I assumed that you would want to send as much as possible of what you are sending to the FOH to the monitors.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you want to make your already challenged vocalist work even harder, put some compression in their monitor mix.

                            Comment


                            • #15






                              Quote Originally Posted by jlb
                              View Post

                              If you want to make your already challenged vocalist work even harder, put some compression in their monitor mix.




                              Ah okay. What about for IEM's? Also, what about compressing the drums (particularly the kick) and the bass, not to mention the lead guitar?

                              Comment



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