Need advice on downsizing sound system...

[jamiefx]

Ok I know these type of forum questions have been way over asked, but I genuinely need advice. I sing in a regional, traveling Southern Gospel Group. We have 4 vocals and use pre recorded backing tracks to sing with, a keyboardist occasionally accompanies us. The system we've been using belongs to a now former member and we have found ourselves without a sound system. The system needs to be small and easy to transport (must fit in the cargo area of my compact SUV) but be powerful enough to handle our venues (churches and small auditoriums that seat 80-350 people). Most of the places we sing does not like it super loud, so most of the time we can only play at low to mid levels (not near as loud as a country band or rock group). I have about $1800 on hand to build the system (I know it's not enough, but it's gotta do for now). I need a small mixer, EQ, 2 mains, subwoofer , 2 monitors (I already own 2 Alto TX10's for that) and microphones. Don't suggest the Bose towers, we borrowed one from a friend and no one liked it and they cost too much. I am hoping someone mat be able to advise me on this that's had some experience with the equipment I'm thinking about already or give me a viable alternative. Btw, I already have all the cables and stands so that doesn't factor into the cost of buying the system.

 

These are the 2 setups I've been considering:

 

Setup 1:

2 Alto Troupers for Mains

1 Alto TS Sub 12 Subwoofer

2 Alto TX10's for monitors

4 AKG D5 Mics or 4 Sennheiser E835's

Soundcraft Signature 10 Mixer

BBE EQ 231

 

Setup 2:

2 HK Lucas Nano 300's

2 Alto TX10's for monitors

4 AKG D5 Mics or 4 Sennheiser E835's

Soundcraft Signature 10 Mixer

BBE EQ 231

 

I really like portability of the Lucas Nano system but have never heard one and I'm not close enough to any stores that carry them to demo them. Those are just 2 ideas I've been thinking about. Im sure some of you all would have a better idea so that's why I'm asking for help. Just remember when advising me: Stay on budget and remember it's gotta be very portable and small enough. Thanks in advance!

[MikeRivers]

I'd have to look at my show report (or you could) but I think I saw that Lucas system at the NAMM show last year or year before. I thought it had too many gimmicks and it just didn't look like it was big enough for the coverage you need. My advice about speakers, and this works surprisingly well, is that if a speaker looks like it's big enough to do the job, it probably will. And if it looks too small, it probaby is.

 

I'd question why you need a subwoofer, though, particularly since you don't perform very loud. Save your money, your back, and your van space and maybe get a couple of special mics for special voices.

 

I'm guessing that you don't have an engineer mixing your shows, that you set up and run everything from the stage. Have you given any thought to what I call a mixer-in-a-stage box? Mackie, Presonus, Behringer, Soundcraft . . they're all making 'em now. Box with very few controls, plug in your mics and your speakers, and control it wirelessly from an iPad, a computer, or even a phone. They save a lot of space, they're cheap, most of them have full EQ and dynamics on every channel (you'd probably pre-set those and just check that they're recalled before you start the show), and if the monitor mix needs tweaking, you can just pull your phone out of your pocket and turn down whoever is too loud.

 

I don't care for working with non-tactile controls when you need to actively mix every song, but for a self-contained group that does pretty much the same show every time (not necessarily the same songs, but a show that can work with a static mix), I think it's a good thing to consider.

 

 

[jamiefx]

Hey Mike... Thx for responding... We actually had a Soundcraft UI16 that we were using before our former member pulled out... To be honest I wasn't crazy about it, I like knobs and sliders... Lol.. I found it to be a bit noisy also... It had a hiss to it that we never did get dialed out.. I read a lot online and I just never got it dialed in right... I do much better with a 31 band eq and actual mixer, but I'm a bit old school I guess... As far as the subwoofer, I get that question a lot..The type of music we sing (modern quartet Gospel) heavily features the bass singer.. The sub is mostly for when the bass singer hits a low note, you feel it not just hear it... That's really why I'd like to keep a sub in the system..Our audiences love to feel those low bass notes and our bass singer has a good low range... I love the idea of the Lucas Nano, but I fear that even 2 of them will be underpowered in the long run and I also worry the small 8 inch subs can't compete at all with a 12 inch or larger sub...

[MikeRivers]

I won't mix a show on an iPad and I even hate having to do it on a digital console. Just like you, I like knobs. It's more intuitive for me to move my hand to the channel strip than to always move my hand to the same place and hope I've selected the correct channel to adjust.

 

I can't comment on the noise you were experiencing with the Soundcraft UI16. Generally hiss in a system is a result of having things that aren't properly matched gain-wise. This is almost always fixable unless the problem is that the mic preamps simply didn't have sufficient gain for the mics and singers, and everything needed to be cranked wide open at the input end of the chain.

 

You're the one who knows your bass singer, but it's a really unusual voice that has a fundamental frequency below about 80 Hz, and that's about where subwoofers start to take over. You might try to audition full range speakers that claim to have usable response below 60 Hz. Maybe it would work for you, but the only way to know is to try. And if you already know that your subwoofer makes a difference to your audiences, then go for it.

 

 

[philboking]

Mike has a great point. I use 2 JBL Eons (the old ones, built in 400watt amps, with 15" speakers plus horns). They work really well down to 50Hz or so. They weigh about 40lbs each, and are more than adequate for crowds up to 400 or so. These are old enough you can probably pick them up from eBay for 300 or so each. They were originally about 750 bucks apiece new.

They are also quick and easy to set up - put one on a tripod stand, connect power & line level input from the mixer, raise the stand and lock it, and it's good to go.

[MrHarryReems]

I really like the QSC TouchMix mixers for sheer portability. I've got a back-breaker of a board that I would love to replace with a TouchMix. The nice thing about it is that you can save scenes, so if you have a particular setting you like, hit a button and it brings it all back. They can also record your show out to USB. Throw in a couple of powered speakers with tripod stands and you're set.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I'm with Mike - the very first thought I had as I was reading your post and came to "subwoofer" was - why?

[daddymack]

I think you are going to be disappointed with the Alto Troupers. They just don't have enough power at 200W. I know price is an issue, so I would suggest you could go to the Alto TX12 [300w, 600w peak], and they run in the same $200 price range.

I use a pair of Alto TS110s and have always been impressed with the quality of sound and projection for such a compact, lightweight speaker. Yes they are a tad pricier [another $50 each], but space saving, lower weight...might be well worth it.

The Sennheisers e835s is a good choice, I recommend them to people all the time [i own 2].

Board wise, you need 4 vocal tracks, a stereo in for your tracks and a mono/stereo in for the keyboardist. That Soundcraft is a good choice; you may actually find that you won't need the outboard EQ unit...although the BBE is a very nice unit