Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 5, 2012 Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2012 you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 5, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2012 you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 5, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2012 you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I already knew I hate radio. From the 1980's when I was trying to help work records I'd worked on. It's a corrupt snake pit full of tin ears. Just like the rest of the music biz. The real question for me always is, why would I want to try to make music in styles that I find annoying beyond tolerance and then try to sell that music through people I have utter contempt for to artists I think are complete garbage? The people on these panels are among the first I'd put up against the wall... There's new music I love, but almost entirely, it is the music that is growing up through the cracks in the concrete. And these industry types are the concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I already knew I hate radio. From the 1980's when I was trying to help work records I'd worked on. It's a corrupt snake pit full of tin ears. Just like the rest of the music biz. The real question for me always is, why would I want to try to make music in styles that I find annoying beyond tolerance and then try to sell that music through people I have utter contempt for to artists I think are complete garbage?The people on these panels are among the first I'd put up against the wall...There's new music I love, but almost entirely, it is the music that is growing up through the cracks in the concrete. And these industry types are the concrete. We can be together.... [video=youtube;cxA3Q96a8XE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Up against the wall, Fred. That's the music politics I grew up with (although the band was, in many ways, past their prime at that point) but look what happened to the vocal core of that band when they decided to sell out. Can anyone look at the complete and utter tripe that the Starship put out and think that there was any musical, artistic or cultural merit in the devolution from the Jefferson Airplane to the commercial enterprise known as the Starship? Meanwhile, the musicians from the Airplane stayed true to their music. They didn't end up making as much money, but Jorma Kaukonen and Jack Casady have a lot of good music in their wake -- and they still have their musical integrity, something that certainly can't be said for Grace, Paul, and Marty. We can be together Ah you and me We should be together We are all outlaws in the eyes of america In order to survive we steal cheat lie forge f--- hide and deal We are obscene lawless hideous dangerous dirty violent and young But we should be together Come on all you people standing around Our life's too fine to let it die and We can be together All your private property is Target for your enemy And your enemy is We We are forces of chaos and anarchy Everything they say we are we are And we are very Proud of ourselves Up against the wall Up against the wall fred [they don't say fred] Tear down the walls Tear down the walls Come on now together Get it on together Everybody together We should be together We should be together my friends We can be together We will be We must begin here and now A new continent of earth and fire Come on now getting higher and higher Tear down the walls Tear down the walls Tear down the walls Won't you tryIt was 1969, the height of the Vietnam war. Every week, there were hundreds of casualties and many deaths among US soliders -- and many times more among the Vietnamese. Richard Nixon, who had promised to 'end the war in six months' in 1968 was settling in for a long ride -- and a long war. Meanwhile, the music biz was trying desperately to get us to buy "Yummy Yummy Yummy, I Got Love in My Tummy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Up against the wall, Fred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I think I remember showing the lyric sheet to my mom (the album came out right around the time I was graduating high school) and saying, see, they don't say what you think they say. She was not fooled. She actually liked some of the folk-rock stuff on Surrealistic Pillow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I think I remember showing the lyric sheet to my mom (the album came out right around the time I was graduating high school) and saying, see, they don't say what you think they say. She was not fooled. She actually liked some of the folk-rock stuff on Surrealistic Pillow. It's an incredibly white and awkward "mother{censored}er" but "mother{censored}er" it clearly is. On a somewhat related note, Miles Davis is the all-time king of "mother{censored}er" usage, both on quality and quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I hate long posts on internet forums. :mad: :mad: ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I hate long posts on internet forums. :mad: :mad: ;) TL/DR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 What i did read, I'll say they are right; pick a genre you like and try to fit in. I'm always skeptical of what-to-dos that come out of Nashville. They're always so colored by the Nashville Country machine. hardly anybody I admire comes through there. Darrell Scott. But he's pretty anti-country at the same time as being classified as country. (read the words to Long Time Gone). I went to a Nashville Songwriter's meeting once. Got a critique by some guy over a internet video link. He reportedly had won a few awards as a co-writer on a few hit country tunes. He was working positively with others in the meeting who had songs with the most mundane lyrics in the world. I'd shoot myself in the head if that's the best my mind would come up with. When it got to my song, he looked confused and called it "Canadian." And said it had no commercial value whatsoever. I actually love a lot of Canadian Folk artists and found it a backhanded compliment. I have to wonder about a song that has 6 or 7 people credited as writers. Like what'd you do to get credit, change a verb tense? Wow, that's being creative. But still the point is well taken that you should pick a genre you like, study what works in that genre, and see if you can make your creation fit into it. Music is about communication. If nobody understands what you've communicated, you haven't communicated anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I already knew I hate radio. From the 1980's when I was trying to help work records I'd worked on. It's a corrupt snake pit full of tin ears. Just like the rest of the music biz. The real question for me always is, why would I want to try to make music in styles that I find annoying beyond tolerance and then try to sell that music through people I have utter contempt for to artists I think are complete garbage?The people on these panels are among the first I'd put up against the wall...There's new music I love, but almost entirely, it is the music that is growing up through the cracks in the concrete. And these industry types are the concrete. nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 5, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2012 you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 boy, you guys aren't predictable or anything *spits* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 To paraphrase a guy who used to post in BSWTB: You don't have to chase tail lights, and you don't have to give people exactly what they ask for. You do have to appeal to an audience, and you do have to give people what they want, but that can take a lot of different forms. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 5, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2012 you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 5, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2012 you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 C'mon man - not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 . . . , But still the point is well taken that you should pick a genre you like, study what works in that genre, and see if you can make your creation fit into it. Music is about communication. If nobody understands what you've communicated, you haven't communicated anything. OK. What do I win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 What happened? I finally have time to go in and read it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 5, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2012 I melted under the unbearable strain of cynicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 "Now me, I went to Nashville, tryin' to beat the big dealPlayin' down on Broadway, gettin' there the hard wayLiving from a tip jar, sleeping in my carHocking my guitar, yeah I'm gonna be a star Now, me and Deliah singing every SundayWatching the children and the garden growWe listen to the radio to hear what's cookin?But the music ain't got no soul Now they sound tired but they don't sound HaggardThey've got money but they don't have CashThey got Junior but they don't have HankI think, I think, I think The rest is a long time goneNo, I ain't hit the roofSince I don't know when Long time goneAnd it ain't coming back again" Darrell Scott. [video=youtube;oQ0Ra_ubK10] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I melted under the unbearable strain of cynicism. Ooops. I think the major points of the discussion you posted are VERY relevant to EVERYBODY here. It's true, we are all at different places in our creative journeys. For nearly everybody here, commercial musical success is never going to happen. Nevertheless we all have found creative work in the musical commercial world that cuts through the din and hits the target both artistically and commercially. Like the Darrel Scott tune above. The Dixie Chicks ran it up the commercial (and yes, Country) charts. So there are lessons to be learned. But because we're not realistically concerned about putting food on the table with this work, we all have a tendency to error on the artistic side, rather than the commercial side in our personal quests. But truth is, if we (myself very much included) ignore the nuts-and-bolts (so called commercial) side of music, we are doomed to never acheive what we set out to create. Because music is communication. If we continually ignore the tools of communication in favor of the whims of our personal muse, then we will never grow and realize our potential. , . . . , or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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