progression question

hey guys. sorry im sure these threads are annoying from newcomers but i just need to ask something....

Been studying basic music theory by myself for a couple weeks.. finally think ive got it... like making a scale, constructing chords from the scale and making a chord progression and then playing over top.

this is the first one ive attempted from scratch. is it a valid progression?

I - II - IV - VII

2 3 3 0

3 0 0 1

2 0 0 0

0 2 3 0

0 2 3 3

0 0 0 2

D Em G Cm

Hmm, Im sure you'll get the answers you're looking for here, but this is really more a question for a theory forum, right?

BTW, I have no clue. Not a theory buff myself. I fly by the seat of my pants.

Well, from a theoretical standpoint, there are a few problems with it. First off, a disclaimer: it's important to remember that music theory is intended to explain music, not dictate or control music. So if something sounds good, it is good. Alright, so anway...

When using roman numerals to express a progression, modern custom is to represent minor chords in lowercase. So it would be I - ii - IV - vii.
• Cm is not the vii chord in the key of D. The vii chord in a major key is one half-step (aka 1 fret) below the root. Cm is a full step below D. Also, the vii chord in a major key is not simply minor; it is diminished. So the diatonic (in other words, strictly in-key) vii chord in the key of D is C#dim. Also, as a side note, the diatonic vii chord (C#dim in this case) is almost never used in most styles - it just doesn't sound good.

• The fingerings you posted for D and Em are correct, but the ones for G and Cm are off.

By the way, the most appropriate place to ask theory-related questions is the Lesson Loft. I'm sure many of us are happy to answer your questions here, but in the future, you would probably get more & better replies there.

Well... there is no theory forum per se, Airsean.

And, Dubb, the Lesson Loft is undoubtedly a place where you could find the right answer (and I'm thinking the keyboard forum might work as well) but it might not the first place many folks would think to go, I'm thinking, since it's a part of the Guitar Forum.

[UPDATE: Doh! I did not realize that was guitar tab! Dubb, you were spot on in your comment, in light of that! Dumb donkey's backside me.]

But I know I'm not the guy to ask theory questions of... I'm pretty much another pant seat navigator, like Airsean.

Knowing barely enough theory to be dangerous (to myself if no one else), when in doubt, I look to the piano keyboard in order to more easily visualize the issues. If there's no keyboard around I'll jot a super-simplified keyboard down on a scrap of paper (or just visualize... but it's a little bit of a stretch... I get lost between F and B -- all those black keys mixed up in there are confusing. )

Dubb -- that's a really good point you made about theory: it's there to help us to interpret and understand music -- not to dictate it.

The D Em G Cm chords sound good; but at Cm you are in another tonality which doesn't really sound good resolving back to D; the correct roman numeral are I IIm IV ? (? = the numeral depends on what chord is comming next), one possibility would be going to C major: D Em G Cm Dm F = I IIm IV IIm IV

[sLAPS SELF IN FOREHEAD]

Oh, geez... that's guitar tab -- I guess Dubb was actually spot on, in that case.

I'm so dumb. I have to admit I kind of looked at the numbers, didn't make sense of them, and moved on. My bad!

Lol, it took me a minute to figure them out too. At first I was reading them line by line, thinking "These chords make no sense! Is he playing these on a bass or what??"

Adondai: When using Roman Numerals, all you need to do is use lower case to indicate minor

Your song (out of D) is a

I - ii - IV - bvii

the b indicates a flat chord in the vii position - which is the Cm and, to me, sounds weird

It sounds to me more like its out of the key of G and goes

V - vi - I - iv in which the iv is the Cm and still sounds weird

HOWEVER: Music Theory is exactly that - theory...It is not Music Fact -- With that said, write what you feel and dont worry if 10000 guys like me tell you the Cm sounds weird

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EDIT ----- I just checked your TAB

2 3 3 0

3 0 0 1

2 0 0 0

0 2 3 0

0 2 3 3

0 0 0 2

The first chord is D

The second chord is Em (variation)

The third chord is a Csus4/B

The fourth chord is a G (variation)

You reveresed the last two chords when you posted AND the one chord is not a Cm after all

This makes your song out of the Key of G and is

V - vi - IV - I

The sus4/B is an interesting chord and sounds a lot better than a Cm

Whoops... haha yea that was all just one tabbed progression and i was guessing chord names, should have said.

above stormtrooper says its in the key of g. so i think i screwed up there... I thought the first chord was the key it was in... which thought was D.

D is what i was using for this little opening riff thing for my song... But when i was trying to fit words to it... was pretty hard using D as first chord... can u use D for the intro, and then the progression for the verses not containing D? Also can the chords in the progression be shuffled in any order?

haha i feel so stupid with this theory stuff... i just want to understand it but teaching urself is so hard.

Also wondering how you go about composing a simple little acoustic instrumental piece for the middle of the song, like Cat Stevens does between chorus and verse in 'Father and Son' or Colin Hay in 'overkill'. Do you go about it just like a solo?

Most songs the first chord usually happens to be the key but its not a rule of thumb.... the most popular example is "Sweet Home Alabama" - It starts on D but is actually a V - IV - I out of the key of G...Guys that use vocal harmonizers will tell you that they have to set the harmonizer to G Major to get the auto-harmonies to work with it

haha k thanks... yea i know what you mean... i kinda did that... playing what sounds okay and stuff for a yr with no thoery knowlege and also very little progress.... but learning a bit of theory is already openinng up heaps more stuff for me and i saw it as the best way to improve my playing atm...

but thanks for ur help.... guess ill get to mah composinggg.. haha hopefully post an example up soon.

It's really best not to approach it like this. Theoretically, yes, you can mix and match chords in a key to a large extent, but really there's more to it than that (or at least there should be). Each chord serves a purpose, a function. Like stormtrooper said, it's best to go with what sounds best to your ears rather than randomly swapping chords from a key.

Great little thread.

The tab for Chord 4 is actually a Gadd9 ( the notes are G - B - D - G - D - E), however Ive seen guitarists use this as a substitute for a straight G.. I would still call this a V -vi - IV - I out of G but I guess thats why its called Music Theory instead of Music Fact

EDIT OOOOPS My apologies, Dubb I must be dyslexic: I just saw that its not G-B-D-G-D-E but it is F# - C - D - G - D - E ( I was looking at the bass strings backwards)... I would call this chord a Cadd9 with F# bass (Cadd9/F#) .. the tonalitiesn here now implies that the key is D ( as was originally posted)

Very Steely Dan-ish

I'm glad we're in agreement

I'm glad we're in agreement

Sorry, man....I was looking at your post thinking "This guy knows his {censored} so why is he calling that chord that?", so I checked it again and saw my error ... My bad