the love of angels: feedback, responses

here's a work in progress

i have a few concerns, but just want to hear some reactions, feedback, suggestions

thanks in advance

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=720152&songID=7140718

As I started to listen and was reading the lyrics I thought the song might seem a little light and insubstantial. But I didn't feel that way after listening. Just goes to show you how much the overall sound and performance makes a difference. It's very pretty and builds nicely. Another nice one.

Since you've been asking about your vocals, I will mention one minor thing here. It's sometimes said that one should not 'sing the consonants' - this is a piece of advice I've never really understood until I heard you do it in this song. The last line of the bridge "as best as you can", you're holding/singing the "NNN" in "can" when it might be better to hold the preceding vowel.

It's a good song, a good example of your style. +1 to eeglug on a couple points- it does feel a little insubstantial, but I don't have any good suggestions to help. Maybe something with the backup vox, panned out and with some reverb- it doesn't need a heavy hand. Also singing the consonant does stand out a little to me on two lines ("...crumbs/...can"). There's some dissonance between the two voices on chorus. Maybe consider a harmony instead of unison pitch.

Lyrically, good parallelism in the verses, I like the 3rd verse best. I can dig the gist of it, but it's a little open-ended to gather a specific story. The lyrics raise questions that aren't answered so I find myself left to decide- that's ok, but I didn't come to any conclusions myself.

I like it, good job.

thanks guys ... awesome tip on the singing. I hadn't noticed that before

I have been trying lately to hold back on the lyrics and let the music carry a lot of the weight in terms of the mood ...

thank you for the comments

The song concept, opening chord progression, sounds like the prelude to a great and strong song, like along the lines of "Iris". But somehow, it descends into being "just all right" in my amateur opinion. I listened twice and was trying to identify where it, to me, lost that edge. It's not the production, which is just like most of my own pieces, done just for idea purposes. There's something it needs that would really make this one special. It's touching on it but not hitting it. Maybe it's where the melody goes in places.

I look forward to seeing how this one develops.

I would definetly love to hear if you can put your finger on it what it is that is missing for you

I aapreciate the comment

eeglug really, really nailed it. It's "light", which is probably a good exercise for you, since you seem drawn to lyrical gravity. There's a middle ground between the two that will be perfect, but there isn't a lot to chew on here lyrically. I think he's pinned down what is so weird about your singing, too. There's points awarded for personal style, but "singing the consonants" is what has unsettled me about your singing.

The unison voices are a little unusual, but beyond that, I really love the production of this one. What are you doing? I think that you're a lo-fi guy like me, but I can't nail the vibe that you've got. I really like the way this one sounds, would love to sound like that myself, and want to hear more like this.

CM, thanks for the comments

i'm not sure if this is what you are asking (feel free to ask for more info)

i recorded with an SM57 (both guitar and voice) through a Radio Shack 3-channel mixer and right into my computer. i use N-Track Studio.

on the guitar track, i used a little echo. then i cloned that track and added a little grit with Free Amp (which is an N-Track Studio plug-in). i then cloned the track again and added a different (louder) grit which i played only during the choruses and the bridge.

there is a keyboard "violin" playing on the choruses and bridge as well.

on the voice, i recorded one track with a little reverb and delay, then recorded a "back-up" track just with reverb which i play at a much lower volume. the "la-la-la-la's" are a separate track with reverb and a "static" add-on that comes with N-Track (makes the voice sound like a small radio)

the rhythm track is the keyboard again, using a cymbal and a snare

i used soft-knee compression on the whole thing, and then upped the high end and lowered the bass end and added minimal noise gate

at the end, it seemed sluggish, so i sped up the whole track just a little

[edit] i forgot the song also has a bass track, recorded with the SM57 as well. it has no effects on it.

That's what I'm looking for. I've got to figure out how to apply reverb and compression in Reaper. It never sounds like I'm making a difference when I slide it around. What do you use for monitors?

well ... i have two crappy pc speakers, so i have to listen to the mix on my iPod. after i am more or less happy, i burn to disk and listen to it in my car.

usually it takes me two or three tries on the cd to more or less get it finished

I think you've done a great job by any standard.

The vocals I agree might be better if done in harmony and IMHO a good sax would add a little "feel" that for me, isn't quite there, like said above, there's something ( but I'm not sure exactly what ) that's going to make it exceptional

All in all I like it.

This is a great, albeit slightly weird, song. If it didn't center around the word "love" I think the lyric would be almost totally disposable. As it is, I'm not totally sure what the song's definition of love is, but my own internal definition of love works well enough with the rest of the lyrics so that it forms a satisfying lyrical experience. +1000 to eeglug's incredibly insightful comment about consonants. I'm not sure if the songs are changing that much, but every month your production/performance gets better and better (which, IMHO, is what people actually notice anyway) and I sincerely salute your efforts and improvements.

I was drawn in to the song....maybe by the somewhat ethereal quality of the arrangement.

Here are a few comments.......

There are times where the two vocals don't quite work. Perhaps you could do some creative editing for a better blend.

The sparse character of the lyrics is a strong point of the production, imo. But it does leave a lot of space while putting a large load on the guitar. I found myself waiting for something instrumantally to lift the song to the next level. Perhaps more strings (cello?) strategically placed to add emotion.

And...my first reaction to the guitar was that it needed more (or less) of something. I say this because I tend to overproduce my acoustic guits and I find that sometimes a stripped down version works better.

Think I'll listen one more time.....

I took another few listens to it, and in my amateur opinion, maybe it could be one or more of the following:

Chord progression, the strum pattern is too tame, that it, I think it would have more edge to it if you actually withheld a strum between some bars to create a more obvious duh duh duh pattern. Can you see an audience doing a clap to the beat? duh duh (space) CLAP duh duh duh CLAP duh duh (space) CLAP duh duh duh CLAP. It just feels there's a pulsing rhythm here that maybe could be emphasized during the active parts of the song. Then going back to quiet strumming like you did for verses again.

In the chorus... at the final note, on the words "bright in you", I think the "you" should fall a few notes.

The chorus is dying for some strong harmony to really hit on some gut stirring notes that I can just hear as absent.

Yeah I can hear the singing the consanants thing they were talking about. Of course, that's an easy fix for you.

The song and structure itself are good. Can you hear the group "Live" taking a stab at this?

If you like, give me your lyrics and tabs and I'll take a shot at this to incorporate the ideas. Maybe we can make it part of the "cover someone else's song" contest that was on one of these threads.

Anyway, that's my amateur opinion.

everybody, thank you so much for taking the time to listen

i will concentrate on the singing and harmony on the next version; i will also add a second verse before the first chorus to add some "time before first payoff"

also, i will try to add another instrument layer, perhaps some single notes plucked with the guitar or a running harmony instrumental or something

thank you all again

that WOULD be awesome ... see pm

ok guys, i just have to say again, thank you for the awesome feedback, it's priceless

i went ahead and re-did the choruses to make the backing vocals match the lead vocal, and patched in a new take of "bright in you" to take care of the pitchiness in "you." hope it sounds more or less passable.

as to singing the consonants, i tried most of the night to get an alternative take, and frankly, i captured something in the original take that i can't seem to duplicate. i will try again, but for now, i left the bridge as it was

I enjoyed the listen, some additional instrumentation might add a lttle to the song if it is within your means...

thanks strat

tonight, i another guitar track, crunchy and in the background, and a faux-solo

i don't want to overwhelm what to me is a simple, melody-driven, low-mood song, but i do think it sounds better

thanks for all the help

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=720152&songID=7140718

This one is really nice. I am impressed.

EG

It has the feel of a revival hymn, a sweet, slightly forlorn feeling... there's almost a kind of hypnotic quality after a while... the words sort of come unglued from whatever literal meaning they may have had and become carriers for some strange, transcendant signal.

I guess I asked if you could imagine "Live" doing it because the chord progression is similar to "Lightning Strikes".

Working on our cover. Hard to match the singing voice you used, it is very good for the song.