Members Guitar Heel Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Ok, wait... is this a CS relic copy of a guitar that is already a CS relic? :poke: Yes, I believe that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whitegreyblack Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Yes, I believe that is the case.Well, that's it.... the seventh sign of the apocalypse. It is done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Heel Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Yep, the universe should collapse upon itself at any second now. [waiting] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members themadscientist Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 Fender no longer uses nitro in production. That particular compound is illegal in California. Seriously, nitro is toxic.MOST "nitro" production guitars these days are layered thinly on top of a poly finish. And that is done off site, where guitars are shipped to another source for painting (hence the price hike). That way you still get the desirable checking over the years - but the instrument remains stable.Nitro finishes are still being supplied (you can get them online from various paint stores), but only weekend warriors and independent luthiers seem to be using them anymore.And even then, most of them don't bother with nitro simply because of the risks involved in the spraying process. Almost every word of this post is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stratman61 Posted May 14, 2009 Members Share Posted May 14, 2009 My custom shop relic is nitro with no poly, so they definitly still use nitro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted May 15, 2009 Members Share Posted May 15, 2009 Almost every word of this post is incorrect. Must agree with themadscientist here. Fender spent a metric {censored}ton of money on building a California-approved spray booth for nitrocellulose lacquer. And what risks? The biggest risks there are these days, if you're spraying in a booth like Fender's, is orange-peeling, runs, and spiderwebbing if you don't let it dry correctly. I think Fender knows how to spray nitro, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Beatles27 Posted May 15, 2009 Members Share Posted May 15, 2009 a replica of a relic? fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members reverend1 Posted May 15, 2009 Members Share Posted May 15, 2009 I think it's ugly reguardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted May 15, 2009 Members Share Posted May 15, 2009 I think it's ugly reguardless. When pressed to respond to you thinking it's ugly, the guitar had to say, "Well, I think he's ugly, too, but his avatar's HAWT!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted May 15, 2009 Members Share Posted May 15, 2009 a replica of a relic? fail Consider the relic to be a prototype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members germs Posted May 15, 2009 Members Share Posted May 15, 2009 Must agree with themadscientist here.Fender spent a metric {censored}ton of money on building a California-approved spray booth for nitrocellulose lacquer.And what risks? The biggest risks there are these days, if you're spraying in a booth like Fender's, is orange-peeling, runs, and spiderwebbing if you don't let it dry correctly. I think Fender knows how to spray nitro, though. Way OT, but I'll defend: I should have been more clear. Fender doesn't spray nitro anymore in the way that you think of as "nitro finish". More often than not, the guitar - no matter what grade or brand or line of instrument - is dipped into a clear resin. NOTE this is not sand and seal. It's a few mm thick, and is very real. The only way it comes off is with TalStrip or AirCraft or whatever caustic thing is on the market these days. It cannot be sanded off (easily). The purpose? To protect the wood from damage more readily from the idiots out there who want to "customize" or "relic" the instrument. i.e me and you. The punchline to the joke is that the customer is paying extra for the nitro finish on a slab of wood that is no more resonant than a sawhorse. Thin skin or not. Sure, it's ash - but anyone telling you in the last 5 years or so about the "tone" of their new USA standard production model strat/tele/whatever's wood is (probably) unintentionally full of it. Finishing: the nitro is applied in a thin single layer over the poly-whatever coat. It still checks like it should. It still yellows with age. But hey - you're paying for the look (not the quality) right? Of course they're not going to mention that in the literature. You think they want millions running out the door to the local luthier (who can build a better product any day of the week) to have it done the right way? Nitro is toxic in any number of ways. That's why CA outlawed it. They outlaw everything. But nitro is EXTREMELY harmful if inhaled in liquid (fumes) or solid (powder from sanding) form. It burns the eyes, and can cause damage if it comes in contact with soft tissues like your retina or cornea. Oh, and not to mention that it causes cancer, vomiting, dizzyness, headache, shortness of breath, and the list goes on - simply from inhaling fumes. i.e. spraying without a mask, using an oversaturated respirator filter, or coming too close to someone who's using the product. CA also charges industrial companies by the weight of harmful chemicals released into the air in the form of taxes and fees. Think of it as Carbon Credits for other chemicals. Fender is a business first and foremost. So yes, they finish a majority of their "nitro" instruments off premises in other locales where it's cheaper to be done. Sorry OP for hijacking the thread. John Mayer's "relic" strat is ugly as sin. There's no reason for him to have a relic issue. It's a fad. He's too young to have torn up a guitar in that manner on stage in the proper amount of time it takes to do something like that to an instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted May 15, 2009 Members Share Posted May 15, 2009 Way OT, but I'll defend:I should have been more clear. Fender doesn't spray nitro anymore in the way that you think of as "nitro finish". More often than not, the guitar - no matter what grade or brand or line of instrument - is dipped into a clear resin. NOTE this is not sand and seal. It's a few mm thick, and is very real. The only way it comes off is with TalStrip or AirCraft or whatever caustic thing is on the market these days. It cannot be sanded off (easily).The purpose? To protect the wood from damage more readily from the idiots out there who want to "customize" or "relic" the instrument. i.e me and you.The punchline to the joke is that the customer is paying extra for the nitro finish on a slab of wood that is no more resonant than a sawhorse. Thin skin or not. Sure, it's ash - but anyone telling you in the last 5 years or so about the "tone" of their new USA standard production model strat/tele/whatever's wood is (probably) unintentionally full of it.Finishing: the nitro is applied in a thin single layer over the poly-whatever coat. It still checks like it should. It still yellows with age. But hey - you're paying for the look (not the quality) right? Of course they're not going to mention that in the literature. You think they want millions running out the door to the local luthier (who can build a better product any day of the week) to have it done the right way?Nitro is toxic in any number of ways. That's why CA outlawed it. They outlaw everything. But nitro is EXTREMELY harmful if inhaled in liquid (fumes) or solid (powder from sanding) form. It burns the eyes, and can cause damage if it comes in contact with soft tissues like your retina or cornea. Oh, and not to mention that it causes cancer, vomiting, dizzyness, headache, shortness of breath, and the list goes on - simply from inhaling fumes. i.e. spraying without a mask, using an oversaturated respirator filter, or coming too close to someone who's using the product.CA also charges industrial companies by the weight of harmful chemicals released into the air in the form of taxes and fees. Think of it as Carbon Credits for other chemicals. Fender is a business first and foremost. So yes, they finish a majority of their "nitro" instruments off premises in other locales where it's cheaper to be done.Sorry OP for hijacking the thread. John Mayer's "relic" strat is ugly as sin. There's no reason for him to have a relic issue. It's a fad. He's too young to have torn up a guitar in that manner on stage in the proper amount of time it takes to do something like that to an instrument. You mean they dip it in Fullerplast, just like Leo Fender was doing? NO WAI!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members germs Posted May 15, 2009 Members Share Posted May 15, 2009 You mean they dip it in Fullerplast, just like Leo Fender was doing? NO WAI!!! Not quite, dick. But hey - it seems that maybe I'm not wrong about this... http://caraguitars.com/fullerplast.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caveman Posted May 15, 2009 Members Share Posted May 15, 2009 Looks like {censored} but probably plays and sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted May 15, 2009 Members Share Posted May 15, 2009 Not quite, dick. But hey - it seems that maybe I'm not wrong about this... http://caraguitars.com/fullerplast.asp Wait... You say that I'm a dick and not quite right and then post a link corroborating what I was saying as proof that you're not wrong? However, that page is also talking about Fender using nitro to make people happy back in 1963... People didn't know nitro vs. acrylic vs. polyester vs. polyurethane back in 1963 nor did they care. Therefore I question the validity of what that page has to say. Regardless... Fender DID use Fullerplast and other sealants back in Leo Fender's day. Also, this whole "OMGZ!!! EVERYTHING WAS NITROOOOOOOO!!!" {censored} is a myth. A good portion of Fender's custom colors were actually ACRYLIC lacquer. Fender would also not clearcoat guitars to save a buck. Here's a whole lot of information about what Fender did paint-wise throughout its history. Unlike the link you posted, though, there's just pure researched fact, not witty sarcasm. Incidentally, your link actually cites my link but seems to pick and choose what it wants to present instead of the whole story. http://www.provide.net/~cfh/fenderc.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sunntone Posted May 15, 2009 Members Share Posted May 15, 2009 Fender no longer uses nitro in production. That particular compound is illegal in California. Seriously, nitro is toxic.MOST "nitro" production guitars these days are layered thinly on top of a poly finish. And that is done off site, where guitars are shipped to another source for painting (hence the price hike). That way you still get the desirable checking over the years - but the instrument remains stable.Nitro finishes are still being supplied (you can get them online from various paint stores), but only weekend warriors and independent luthiers seem to be using them anymore.And even then, most of them don't bother with nitro simply because of the risks involved in the spraying process. CA "outlawed" ey? Is that why I walked in to the Ace downtown at lunch today and bought a spray can of Cellulose NITRATE lacquer aka Nitro Cellulose? :poke: Risk involved? yeah like in the 50's when people didn't wear masks? I wear a mask when I spray and professionals who do it everyday wear suits and masks... I think you're really over blowing the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cats-o-caster Posted May 15, 2009 Members Share Posted May 15, 2009 what year is his black strat? '61 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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