HELP needed: Leaning bridge posts

[Sheraton]

Why does this happen and what is the best way to fix it? Let me give you a couple examples. Here is an Epiphone Les Paul Junior that I picked up for $20.

As you can see the bridge posts are leaning forward, obviously pulled by the string pressure toward the nut and also the wrap around tail piece/bridge. I had an Epiphone SG a ways back that I traded to Sxyryan that had the same issue.

 

Here's another one.

This is an Ibanez GAX70 that I just picked up. This one has a stop tail piece so I'm not sure why the bridge posts are leaning. There shouldn't be much forward pressure, just downward, right?

 

So is this a result of soft body wood? The Epi's are plywood and the Ibby is basswood (I think). How do I fix this so it doesn't happen again? Would something like a bigsby tailpiece lessen the stress on the bridge posts? Does this ever happen to better guitars or just the chaepies like this? I thought I saw something somewhere that this was not uncommon on early 50's Gibson Les Pauls with wrap around tail pieces. Ever hear of that? What was the fix?Thanks for the help.

[Citizen_Insane]

Does it matter? Does it prevent the guitar from being correctly intonated?

[Sheraton]

 

Does it matter? Does it prevent the guitar from being correctly intonated?

 

 

Yup. That is exactly the issue. The Ibby is OK for now but the Epi can't get to correct intonation. Not enough adjustment left to pull it back far enough. Then, if whatever causes it doesn't change I have to assume that the Ibby will get progressively worse. Like my Dad the ex-mechanic used to tell me about my crappy cars "they don't heal".

[ColoradoFenderB]

I am no engineer, but either: (1) the posts that are made of a soft metal and are bending, (2) the hole in the guitar which accepts the post is enlarged because the wood is soft, or (3) both.

 

If the first issue, chenge the post. If the second, fill the hole and drill it again?

 

I would take it to your local guitar tech and ask.

[Quarter]

Its the wood getting compressed under the tension of the strings. Even though bodys are built from "hardwoods", in fact most "hardwoods" are really not all that hard. What can help a lot is to soak the inside of the post holes with water thin viscosity CA / super glue. It will wick into the wood and harden it substantially. You can get the water thin stuff from most any hobby store, but take precautions not to make a mess of the finish. To protect the finish, take some paste wax and cover the area around the holes for a at least a few inches, more is better. And don't try taping it off either, the water thin CA will wick right under the tape.

[Sheraton]

 

Its the wood getting compressed under the tension of the strings. Even though bodys are built from "hardwoods", in fact most "hardwoods" are really not all that hard. What can help a lot is to soak the inside of the post holes with water thin viscosity CA / super glue. It will wick into the wood and harden it substantially. You can get the water thin stuff from most any hobby store, but take precautions not to make a mess of the finish. To protect the finish, take some paste wax and cover the area around the holes for a at least a few inches, more is better. And don't try taping it off either, the water thin CA will wick right under the tape.

 

 

Thanks! That sounds like a great and relatively easy fix.

[mike42]

I've never done this kind of repair, but I absolutely agree that the CA will harden the wood nicely. The problem it seems to me is that, if the hole are already substantially distorted, the CA will "lock" them in that distorted shape. I would think you need a way to insure that the holes are back to round and vertical before you harden them.

 

I doubt that steam would pull the compressed fibers back to they're original shape, but that might be worth trying. I'm thinking the most likely quick fix might be to use thinned 30 minute epoxy to line the holes and then redrill. This needs to be hobby shop or commercial grade epoxy - not the stuff from Home Depot, or the discount store. The epoxy will harden the wood like the CA, and will also sort of build the hole edges up so that you could hopefully redrill them straight. Unfortunately, I would guess you would almost have to have a drill press or some sort of jig to insure that the redrilled holes are vertical.

[Ital_Stal]

I fixed this problem twice on an old jackson and a floyd strat from the 80's... pull the posts out,

 

now theres two ways ive herd of, get shims or use some type of filler, what i did was got some decent two part expoxy, put a dab in the plug holes, push the plug back in and used the post to lean it straight until it was semi-set. keep in mind you have to put enough epoxy to fill the gap that has been created, it can get messy.

 

Good luck, keep us posted.

[Doctor49]

Came across this recently - credit to whoever wrote it.

"A few things I always do with ABR-1s:

 

1) replace the stock adjustment studs with longer stainless steel screws of the same thread pitch. I use 1 1/2" lengths, either cut from rod or from screws which I cut the heads off of. Double nut them and run the screws firmly to the bottom of the holes. This increases vibration transfer and the stronger screws won't bend towards the nut like the stock ones.

 

2) As needed, turn the saddles around until they can be intonated properly, without jamming them into the end of the slots. If you do the latter the screw will try to walk up towards the string. You'll likely have to cut new slots to get the strings spaced evenly.

 

3) Tighten up the retaining spring as much as possible. If necessary, make a new one out of an unwound thord string (.017" or heavier).

 

4) If the neck angle allows enough clearance under the bridge, use a second set of thumb wheels on the bridge studs, screwed tightly against the top of the guitar. These add more strength to the stud and increase vibration transfer to the top.

 

Lastly, if the bridge studs are improperly located (a common issue since the first ABR-1 was released in the '50s) and you can't get the bridge properly intonated, replace it with a Tonepros AVRII. Thes look virtually identical to an ABR-1, but use a NAshville-style clip to hold the saddle in place, and are just a bit wider, allowing more saddle travel.

 

 

BTW, the double thumbscrew idea is an old one, tried & true. You'll see this occasionally in photos of the old rockers' Gibsons. Dan Erlwine did an article years ago about the bridge posts. I must have stumbled on the idea back in the 60s when we had so many vintage Les Pauls, 335s, etc. with bridges that were tipping over towards the nut from string pressure. The stock posts are some kind of soft brass. They're not long enough to completely seat in the holes, which can vary in depth. When you do this mod, run the new stainless steel posts in until they seat (don't strip the threads in the wood). Then put the thumbwheels and bridge on, restring, set the action and mark the top of the postsat the top edge of the bridge. Disassemble, then trim off the excess post & polish off the ends. "

 

must be something in there to help you.

[profgalen]

I just fixed this problem last night on a Epi SG Jr. wrap-around bridge. I split some thin shims from a bamboo skewer and cut them the length of the depth of the bushing hole. I used wood glue to glue them to the sides of the holes farthest from the neck. I had to lightly tap the bushings back in but they are now strait. Time will tell if they stay that way. I strung it with 11s tuned to an open E chord, so that's a lot of tension. BTW I replaced the pup with a much better P90 dog ear. Now it's a killer slide guitar. Not bad for the $60 I paid for it.

P.S Be careful you don't cover the ground wire in the lower hole.