Was Savatage THAT badass?

[CoqBelliqueux]

[YOUTUBE]8l5uvj0AJzU[/YOUTUBE]

 

 

Well, I've seen a couple RIP Oliva mentions here and there, but if that's his music, RIP indeed. MOAR!!!!! (like that cat avatar)

[Prages]

Criss Oliva was a hell of a guitar player.

 

I preferred Savatage with Zachary Stevens singing than with Jon Oliva. Unfortunately, they only did one album together before Criss was killed.

[DaveAronow]

 

Well, I've seen a couple RIP Oliva mentions here and there, but if that's his music, RIP indeed. MOAR!!!!! (like that cat avatar)

 

 

I knew Chris. John, Zakk and actually all of them. I bought the studio monitors that I am using right now from their old drummer.

I Saw Chris a bunch of times back in the day, and even very early in his career, like in the early 80's, it was clear that he was on track to become a household name and held in the highest reguards with any metal shredder on the planet.

 

I was at the show he was returning home rom when he was killed.

 

Yes, if you like that style of metal shredding, he was about as good as anyone there was, and this coming from someone that saw them dozens of times live all the way from the very early 80's. when they were called Avater, all the way up to and well after Chris's death.

 

His death has been a long time ago now, so who knows what he would be doing today But he was driven, and a great guitar player, so I am positive we, as guitarists would all be talking about him regularly on this site had he lived.

 

My old guitarist went to do some work with Savatage after I left that band to go play with Brian Johnson. Our band broke up immediately after.

 

Then our guitar player did some work around 2000 with The Circle To Circle Project which was John Oliva's writing and producing, with Zakk Stevens on Vocals. The Fired my old guitarist, because he noodled too much and wasnt good at taking direction from others. If He had his way, the record would have just been a mindless guitar wankfest, and if you know Savatage, or any of the related stuff, it is loaded with great guitar, but it is all well placed and well produced, and they had no room for a maniacle, hugely egotistical, mindless wanking shredder. He did their demo with them for the label, and then he was promptly fired.

 

But, yeah, I grew up listening to those guys live, and Chris Oliva is just one of those rare names that I never hear anyone have anything bad to say abouyt. The dude was a monster and had he lived, he would have been a world class, world famous household name of a monster.

[zepsongs]

Yeah, Savatage were a force and should have been huge!! They've had several incredible guitar players in the lineup. Sadly, the band died when Chris did. I always preferred Jon's vocals over Zac's. I found Jon's voice to be more theatrical which worked better with their style of music.

[slvrsrpnt]

Monster guitarist - for some reason I didn't listen to them back in the day. There were just so many records to be bought with very limited funds. I've started picking up some Savatage CDs when finances allow - great stuff.

[CoqBelliqueux]

 

I knew Chris. John, Zakk and actually all of them. I bought the studio monitors that I am using right now from their old drummer. I Saw Chris a bunch of times back in the day, and even very early in his career, like in the early 80's, it was clear that he was on track to become a household name and held in the highest reguards with any metal shredder on the planet. I was at the show he was returning home rom when he was killed. Yes, if you like that style of metal shredding, he was about as good as anyone there was, and this coming from someone that saw them dozens of times live all the way from the very early 80's. when they were called Avater, all the way up to and well after Chris's death. His death has been a long time ago now, so who knows what he would be doing today But he was driven, and a great guitar player, so I am positive we, as guitarists would all be talking about him regularly on this site had he lived. My old guitarist went to do some work with Savatage after I left that band to go play with Brian Johnson. Our band broke up immediately after. Then our guitar player did some work around 2000 with The Circle To Circle Project which was John Oliva's writing and producing, with Zakk Stevens on Vocals. The Fired my old guitarist, because he noodled too much and wasnt good at taking direction from others. If He had his way, the record would have just been a mindless guitar wankfest, and if you know Savatage, or any of the related stuff, it is loaded with great guitar, but it is all well placed and well produced, and they had no room for a maniacle, hugely egotistical, mindless wanking shredder. He did their demo with them for the label, and then he was promptly fired. But, yeah, I grew up listening to those guys live, and Chris Oliva is just one of those rare names that I never hear anyone have anything bad to say abouyt. The dude was a monster and had he lived, he would have been a world class, world famous household name of a monster.

 

 

I was already familiar with TSO, but I didn't know they had this playful operatic Broadway feel even in Savatage. Of course, with such songs, you have to play with the band, this wasn't a jam band at all. Very tight. I wonder how much inspiration Shadow Gallery has taken from then.

[Nephilim-777]

 

Criss Oliva was a hell of a guitar player. I preferred Savatage with Zachary Stevens singing than with Jon Oliva. Unfortunately, they only did one album together before Criss was killed.

 

 

+1 on both.

[DaveAronow]

 

I was already familiar with TSO, but I didn't know they had this playful operatic Broadway feel even in Savatage. Of course, with such songs, you have to play with the band, this wasn't a jam band at all. Very tight. I wonder how much inspiration Shadow Gallery has taken from then.

 

 

Yup. That style of writing is a trademark of John Oliva. He is a big classical music fan, (as am I) and his songs and records always play out similar to individual Arias, and overatures from Operas would play out. Once you understrand that, you totally "get" where John is coming from on all of the writing. Yes. It has always been that way, even from the earliest days of his writing.

[Axeslinger]

"Was Savatage THAT badass?"

 

HELL YES!!!

 

Savatage is my "Deserted Island" band.. If I was on an island and could only have one band's catalog, Savatage would be my pick..

[aliensporebomb]

Even people who weren't into the band back then thought it was a real shame that Oliva was killed just as it seemed that they were going to become bigger.

 

A compelling story: hot guitar whiz dies just as he's starting to show in the national spotlight.

 

Really a sad story. I was amazed at the fact that from the ashes of Savatage the TSO came out and became absolutely huge

- I thought "nice side project". But it became kind of this seasonal cottage industry.

 

I can't help but thinking what Criss would have thought of the whole TSO thing.

[CoqBelliqueux]

I can't help but thinking what Criss would have thought of the whole TSO thing.

 

What do you mean?

 

If Beethoven's Last Night were a bit looser, it would be one of my favorites ever.

[DaveAronow]

 

Even people who weren't into the band back then thought it was a real shame that Oliva was killed just as it seemed that they were going to become bigger. A compelling story: hot guitar whiz dies just as he's starting to show in the national spotlight. Really a sad story. I was amazed at the fact that from the ashes of Savatage the TSO came out and became absolutely huge - I thought "nice side project". But it became kind of this seasonal cottage industry. I can't help but thinking what Criss would have thought of the whole TSO thing.

 

 

What Chris probably would be thinking about TSO, is that he doesnt want to be late for the gig, because most likely he would be the guitar player for TSO, or it easily could have ended up that way.

[EllenGtrGrl]

I saw Savatage in 1993 in Green Bay (I can't recall the exact date). While I wasn't into everything they performed (I can only take so much operatic music), I was impressed with their musicianship. I had read about Criss Oliva a year or two before then, in the guitar mags. The stories were true - he really was an impressive player, with phenomenal chops! The best part about it, was that he didn't overplay, unlike so many shredders, who seem to be on a mission from god, to show to the point of overkill, how "great" their playing technique is. If Criss hadn't died, it's very possible that he could have been seen in the same light as say Joe Satriani or Steve Vai.

[CoqBelliqueux]

If Criss hadn't died, it's very possible that he could have been seen in the same light as say Joe Satriani or Steve Vai.

Mindless wankers with synthetic tone?

[Bobby D]

they were awesome. i lived in tampa during those days, and knew the guys like dave did.

 

when criss died, it sent a shockwave thru the community

 

i prefer the original version of Savatage with the brothers in full effect

[AVisme]

The "Power of the Night" record ruled all. Once they changed from straight ahead metal to that progressive, operatic stuff, I lost all interest.

[EllenGtrGrl]

 

Mindless wankers with synthetic tone?

 

 

Nope, technique played with taste. And, don't forget, tone is in the ear of the beholder. For instance, I gather from your Morricone thread, you might like Bach & Roll tone ala Malmsteen. Me, I don't like such a round tone. There's nothing wrong with differing in that respect. Also saying Vai's and Satriani's tones are synthetic, is too much of a generalization IMO. I don't like all of their music guitar tonewise, but they still have some happening tones IMO. Such as "Crushing Day" by Satriani, and "Viv Woman" by Vai.

[CoqBelliqueux]

Nope, technique played with taste. And, don't forget, tone is in the ear of the beholder. For instance, I gather from your Morricone thread, you might like Bach & Roll tone ala Malmsteen. Me, I don't like such a round tone. There's nothing wrong with differing in that respect. Also saying Vai's and Satriani's tones are synthetic, is too much of a generalization IMO. I don't like all of their music guitar tonewise, but they still have some happening tones IMO. Such as "Crushing Day" by Satriani, and "Viv Woman" by Vai.

So I guess was necessary, then?

 

*sigh*

[D Carroll]

[YOUTUBE]H4PN7Xbexq4[/YOUTUBE]

[EllenGtrGrl]

So I guess was necessary, then? *sigh*

 

No big deal. But an emoticon does come in handy. Like e-mail, internet posting is often not the best way to convey the emotional tone of what you're trying to say.

[jamdogg]

i grew up on this stuff....

 

[YOUTUBE]lOKbqfzD6rc[/YOUTUBE]

[Scepter]

 

5_MC4ul7tXU

 

GDVoajxYdWI

[the_gunslinger]

I just discovered Savatage a couple of years ago after hearing Hall of the Mountain King on a compilation record. The guitar playing was bad ass, and beautiful. After that, I went out and bought all their cd's. I am now such a huge fan, I don't think I could ever get tired of their music. They have such a huge catalog of great music. Criss's ability was mind blowing, the guy was so talented. Criss has become one of my top inspirations as a guitar player. That's what I want to play like, so that's what I'm working toward personally. So after listening to all the Criss Oliva years Savatage, my top five albums are Mountain King, Power of the Night, Edge of Thorns, Gutter Ballet, and Dungeons.

 

I think someone already posted Edge of Thorns and 24 hours ago, but here are some of my other favorite tunes...(edit: I should have said, I really love almost all their material, but these are the ones that stand out most to me.)

 

(best video I could find)

 

 

 

I especially love this one below...Just beautiful IMO

 

 

And any list Savatage list wouldn't be complete without Mountain King

 

[the_gunslinger]

Heres another cool song by Dr. Butcher, the band Jon Oliva and Chris Caffery formed after they left Savatage. They had some cool stuff. I first heard this song on lastfm. I like it a lot.

 

[Arr0wHead]

What do you mean? If Beethoven's Last Night were a bit looser, it would be one of my favorites ever.

 

 

Criss was the thrashy side of Savatage. His brother Jon was the theatrical one. They had an amazing balance of these two sides for their early albums. Then, when they recorded Gutter Ballet Jon fell in man-love (not literally) with producer Paul O'Neil. HE is where the whole concept album and theatrical side really came from. "Gutter Ballet" is actually the title of the rock-opera O'Neil had written before meeting Savatage. It was recorded in full as the next Savatage album, "Streets".

 

O'Neil wrote a lot of this later Savatage material, as Jon HATED writing lyrics and also was busy spending most of the 1990s on one gigantic bender. This is where the entire TSO spawned from. It's not the brainchild of Savatage at all, it is Paul O'Neil's project, an offshoot from his piece "Christmas Eve Sarajevo" which first appeared on a Savatage concept album "Dead Winter Dead".

 

Overall, my point is that for many years leading to his death, Criss and Jon fought a LOT, had many disagreements, and I honestly think he would NOT have continued forever with Savatage under the rudder of O'Neil, and I think he would have not have been as interested in TSO. (although, a paycheck IS a paycheck)