Before the Music Dies

[KovachianOne]

A documentary on the state of radical change within the music industry. http://www.beforethemusicdies.com/

I downloaded the film from http://www.bside.com/films/beforethemusicdies?wicket:pageMapName=wicket-0 for a few measly bucks and I'm glad I did.

 

Just wanted to throw this out for anyone who's interested.

[sabriel9v]

First off, the girls who were asked about Bob Dylan and didnt know who he was were {censored}in idiots. I don't want anybody to think those lobotomy patients are reflective of my generation...now with that off my chest, this may sound like blasphemy, but with the "death" or "dying" of the music industry, does anyone feel that as artists we're really making what we should have been making from the start?

[uzybear]

well........digital wants to be free, and people pirate

 

my answer to piracy is:

 

digital downloads

much cheaper, like $1 for the album

no drm

whatever bitrate mp3 or flac you want

 

 

or even better yet, just downloads from your own website

[slight-return]

 

does anyone feel that as artists we're really making what we should have been making from the start?

 

 

 

hmm, I really dont know

 

As art, I hesitate to apply a universal and objective "should" to it.

 

Even he goal of "making" could be antithetical to some artists...I wish I could credit the quote (I want to say visual artist, female, possible SF Bay area USA)

"Art is the residue of the artistic process"

 

with that, there is more of a "doing" thn a "making" orientation to the artist

 

h, just a thought, tried to answer as honestly as I could

[sabriel9v]

 

hmm, I really dont know As art, I hesitate to apply a universal and objective "should" to it. Even he goal of "making" could be antithetical to some artists...I wish I could credit the quote (I want to say visual artist, female, possible SF Bay area USA) "Art is the residue of the artistic process" with that, there is more of a "doing" thn a "making" orientation to the artist h, just a thought, tried to answer as honestly as I could

 

 

I suppose what I'm getting at is, as artists working within a big money system, we've become accustomed to the fact that with music the sky is the limit. But technology and other entertainment industries have taken a large slice of our pie. The demand has not left, but shifted...are we just bitching about the "death" of the industry or has capitalism moved its wheels as it should?

[Poker99]

 

First off, the girls who were asked about Bob Dylan and didnt know who he was were {censored}in idiots. I don't want anybody to think those lobotomy patients are reflective of my generation...

 

 

I don't know how old you are but the majority in my generation are stupid {censored}s and completely ignorant about the business and real artists.

[sabriel9v]

I don't know how old you are but the majority in my generation are stupid {censored}s and completely ignorant about the business and real artists.

 

I'm 21 and Poker...sometimes I feel the same. I was talking to my roommate about Cream the other day and he didn't even know that Eric Clapton was in that band or really who they were. Our generation needs to experience a cultural revolution.

[slight-return]

 

I suppose what I'm getting at is, as artists working within a big money system, we've become accustomed to the fact that with music the sky is the limit.

 

 

My apoliges, I thought "making" was referring to artistic output...if I understand correctly, you are thinking "making" in monetary terms.

 

hmm, I wouldn't really put that (monetary making) as "as artists"; more "as artisans" or maybe "tradesmen/craftsmen", or "commerical content providers"

 

[Personal note : coming from a non-pop music tradition, I guess the "sky is the limit / rockstar" impression of income potential was never really presented as a viable option for me]

[BlueStrat]

 

The demand has not left, but shifted...are we just bitching about the "death" of the industry or has capitalism moved its wheels as it should?

 

 

The demand has not left, I agree.

 

However, that doesn't negate the fact that a) supply far exceeds demand, and b) an enormous amount of product is being created for which no demand exists, simply because artists are able to create it and put it on the market.

 

What I see currently is a lot of guys putting out a product no one wants and then bitching about the collapse of the market. I'm guilty of that myself. Might as well be honest about it.

 

I made a few CDs, tested the waters, and found out that no one is really waiting for what I do. 10 years ago, maybe. But I've sold what, 4k CDs in 7 years? That's not great. So, following the old adage, 'just because you can do something doesn't mean you should', I'll likely not record any more of my stuff, even though I'm sitting on a pile of it. If there is no market for it, it's pointless. I'll play it in my living room and with my band, but that's about it.

 

And you know what? That's okay. Not every idea everone has is great, or even good, and doesn't need to be recorded for posterity!

[BlueStrat]

 

well........digital wants to be free, and people pirate my answer to piracy is: digital downloads much cheaper, like $1 for the album no drm whatever bitrate mp3 or flac you want or even better yet, just downloads from your own website

 

 

That's an interesting idea, uzy, but at 1$ an album, it would take a lot of guys forever to recoup their investment.

 

Then again, if they can't sell 4 or 5 thousand albums, maybe they shouldn't be making them anyway.

 

I don't have the answer. I'm doing a lot of personal soul searching right now and trying to figure out where I'm going from here, and so far I'm not encouraged with what I'm finding. I barely recognize the music business that I knew for 35 years.I don't know if I changed more, or it has, or both. I'm wrestling with whether to get out of music altogether except as a solo artist doing restaurants, and go back to painting just for the fun of it.

[slight-return]

 

I don't have the answer. I'm doing a lot of personal soul searching right now and trying to figure out where I'm going from here, and so far I'm not encouraged with what I'm finding. I barely recognize the music business that I knew for 35 years.I don't know if I changed more, or it has, or both. I'm wrestling with whether to get out of music altogether except as a solo artist doing restaurants, and go back to painting just for the fun of it.

 

 

 

It's a tough one and I feel for ya (I've switched careers a couple of times) - that search can be a bitch. We tie a lot of personal identity in that stuff and yet, as a profession, it's not just about us...which makes for an uncomfortable situation sometimes (the old responsible, but not empowered deal)

 

any chance of hybriding for ya? some performance, some instruction, some non-musical stuff (the SW world is full of us...I think at one point I had a core team that was right around half muso/ex-muso)

[Dean Roddey]

 

digital downloads much cheaper, like $1 for the album no drm whatever bitrate mp3 or flac you want

 

 

These types of ideas assume that the people making music have to make music and are desparate enough to sell it for whatever they can manage to get after all the thieves get done with them. But that's not the case. People will just stop making music in any professional capacity if they cannot make a reasonable living from it.

 

If you look at the recent Radiohead thing. If they sold around 200K copies, which it sounds like they did from what people are saying, and lets say that if they dropped it to a buck then 500K people would buy instead. Well, wow, they have a whole half a million dollars. After their expenses, they may have enough left to distirbute among the band members and the bands employeeds to make as much as they could have made working at Burger King.

[HKSblade1]

$1 for an album? Wow, now that just represents to people that music, or any artists investment is not worth crap.

 

Free is free. They can't get 99 cents let alone a buck. Prosecuting the pirateers is one step, but no way should any musician feel as desperate to put an entire album on a market for less than a box a french fries. Come on !

[BonzoMcbrain]

1$ for an entire album is crazy as all hell. Any band who charges that is pretty much telling you their music sucks.

 

As for my generation not knowing all that much about music, I gotta agree there. I don't even want to talk to anyone my age about music. Even those walking around in Led Zeppelin shirts barely know anything about the band aside from their hits. You can forget about asking them about "Since I've Been Loving You" or "No Quarter".

 

And don't even get me started on the AC/DC shirts. Kids these days must think they are a clothing company or something!

[Poker99]

If they wear the shirt, its because its cool... The new fad... Not because they love the music.

[sabriel9v]

 

The demand has not left, I agree. However, that doesn't negate the fact that a) supply far exceeds demand, and b) an enormous amount of product is being created for which no demand exists, simply because artists are able to create it and put it on the market. What I see currently is a lot of guys putting out a product no one wants and then bitching about the collapse of the market. I'm guilty of that myself. Might as well be honest about it. I made a few CDs, tested the waters, and found out that no one is really waiting for what I do. 10 years ago, maybe. But I've sold what, 4k CDs in 7 years? That's not great. So, following the old adage, 'just because you can do something doesn't mean you should ', I'll likely not record any more of my stuff, even though I'm sitting on a pile of it. If there is no market for it, it's pointless. I'll play it in my living room and with my band, but that's about it. And you know what? That's okay. Not every idea everone has is great, or even good, and doesn't need to be recorded for posterity!

 

 

 

Do you ever see the supply shifting and coming closer to the demand line? I suppose I'm thinking in terms of an actual s&d economic chart right now.

 

Also, selling 600 cds a year is not bad. We've sold maybe 20 at like super low prices. I've even given out a few and I'm skeptical about that. But I'm slowly learning that giving away these hunks of gray plastic is almost mandatory these days.

[Booya Tribe]

Our generation needs to experience a cultural revolution.

 

Just so you know, in Communist China, they had something called the "Cultural Revolution," and what it meant in practical terms was erasing all memory of the past - this meant burning art, ancient texts, destroying sacred buildings (like 6000 Tibetan Monasteries) and artifacts, going into people's homes and taking anything related to religion, ancestors, traditions of the past, etc... oh, and killed thousands of people.

 

So you might want to be careful before calling for a cultural revolution among your generation, because they might just burn all of those old Cream records, and then no one would ever know Eric Clapton was in the band again!

 

[BlueStrat]

Just so you know, in Communist China, they had something called the "Cultural Revolution," and what it meant in practical terms was erasing all memory of the past - this meant burning art, ancient texts, destroying sacred buildings (like 6000 Tibetan Monasteries) and artifacts, going into people's homes and taking anything related to religion, ancestors, traditions of the past, etc... oh, and killed thousands of people. So you might want to be careful before calling for a cultural revolution among your generation, because they might just burn all of those old Cream records, and then no one would ever know Eric Clapton was in the band again!

 

Yep.

Perhaps "cultural re-awakening" would be a better term...

[BlueStrat]

 

Do you ever see the supply shifting and coming closer to the demand line?

 

 

Nope. Not until supply and distribution is controlled again, as it was until the internet and home recording made flooding the market a virtual guarantee.

[jlantsberger]

Just so you know, in Communist China, they had something called the "Cultural Revolution," and what it meant in practical terms was erasing all memory of the past - this meant burning art, ancient texts, destroying sacred buildings (like 6000 Tibetan Monasteries) and artifacts, going into people's homes and taking anything related to religion, ancestors, traditions of the past, etc... oh, and killed thousands of people. So you might want to be careful before calling for a cultural revolution among your generation, because they might just burn all of those old Cream records, and then no one would ever know Eric Clapton was in the band again!

 

While that's true, it was also just a campaign pushed by Mao to consolidate his power and further his personality cult that he termed a "cultural revolution," to stay in keeping with the Communist rhetoric. So the Chinese Cultural Revolution was f'd, but that doesn't mean that the term "cultural revolution" has to mean the same thing.

 

On the other hand, I do like "cultural re-awakening" better, since revolution does tend to imply total deviation from the past. I also like arguing semantics.

 

I haven't watched this film, but most people I know that are my age (I'm 23) know who Dylan, Zepplin, Cream, etc are from either bar bands or radio stations that are continually recycling that material.

 

But sometimes I wonder if that matters anyhow. I mean, do they need to know the roots of music they listen to? Do fans of those bands need to know all the blues artists that influenced those bands? I think the bigger issue is whether they like, or at least know, more interesting artists generally (even if that only includes current artists) versus the over produced pop that's all over.

[FingerBliss]

 

That's an interesting idea, uzy, but at 1$ an album, it would take a lot of guys forever to recoup their investment. Then again, if they can't sell 4 or 5 thousand albums, maybe they shouldn't be making them anyway. I don't have the answer. I'm doing a lot of personal soul searching right now and trying to figure out where I'm going from here, and so far I'm not encouraged with what I'm finding. I barely recognize the music business that I knew for 35 years.I don't know if I changed more, or it has, or both. I'm wrestling with whether to get out of music altogether except as a solo artist doing restaurants, and go back to painting just for the fun of it.

 

 

Hold on now Blue....I always respect your opinion (lots of viewing, not much posting here), but I had to chime in on this one.

 

How many cd's did you sell in the 7 years prior to year 2000? If between 2000-2007 you sold around 4K, hopefully then you would have sold more between 1993-2000 (assuming you put out the same amount of music), due to the rise in "internet piracy".

 

I'd be willing to bet that you probably sold about the same amount of CD's in that time frame. So....how can we blame the lack of sales on free internet music? If anything, the internet probably boosted your sales more than they would have (looking at your CDBaby page for example) and did very little to detract from your overall take.

 

So who does the piracy really hurt? Not the "little" guys like you and me. In my mind, it will hurt bigger bands that might not be able to cut it on the road (where the real money is these days)- bands who might not be worthy of selling all those albums in the first place, if they don;t have the live chops to back it all up.

 

Big bands that are good will survive- They can tour. Little bands like us can get to the big band level EASIER do to the increased amount of exposure we get via the internet. Seems to me, the only folks cut out are the ones who can't cut it.....

 

Thoughts?

[Dean Roddey]

So you are telling me that if I can make the most amazing music in the studio that just blows people away, but it's impossible to really practically replicate live, that I'm not deserving of compensation from all those people who are listening to my music and getting plesaure from it? What if I'm handicapped? What if I have a family who I cannot in good conscience abandon for a permanent life on the road? What if I have children with special needs? You are just writing off the ability of anyone who cannot make money touring as professional musicians, no matter how much they contribute in the way of actual music (which is really the fundamental point of all this, the creation of music, not touring.)

[FingerBliss]

 

So you are telling me that if I can make the most amazing music in the studio that just blows people away, but it's impossible to really practically replicate live, that I'm not deserving of compensation from all those people who are listening to my music and getting plesaure from it? What if I'm handicapped? What if I have a family who I cannot in good conscience abandon for a permanent life on the road? What if I have children with special needs? You are just writing off the ability of anyone who cannot make money touring as professional musicians, no matter how much they contribute in the way of actual music (which is really the fundamental point of all this, the creation of music, not touring.)

 

 

Unfortunately, yeah. Unless you were established prior to the rise of free internet downloading, you're gonna have a tough time making top dollar off only selling albums.

 

Im not saying it to be mean, I'm just saying thats it seems to be the way things are going (notice record companies desperately trying to get a piece of the touring/merch pie, as that is the only real revenue generator out there). Now, you could also try to license and sync your tunes as another way to generate some flow, but thats a different ballgame....

 

What Im saying is that the internet is forcing the music industry to "trim the fat"- that is, since most bands will not be making much money off albums, you better be able to do something else (like touring) REALLY well in order to make money in this game.....

[slight-return]

 

So who does the piracy really hurt?... Little bands like us can get to the big band level EASIER do to the increased amount of exposure we get via the internet. Seems to me, the only folks cut out are the ones who can't cut it..... Thoughts?

 

 

One note on that - if the copying is authorized, it is not piracy. In other words, you can allow distribution of works for the level of exposure you deem appropraite and advantageous - and another creator can make a different decision based on their analysis of their situation

[Dean Roddey]

 

Unfortunately, yeah. Unless you were established prior to the rise of free internet downloading, you're gonna have a tough time making top dollar off only selling albums.

 

 

The point I was making is that I wouldn't bother in the current climate. So people's greed and lack of morality is going to prevent a lot of people from making the stuff that they want.