Is it even possible to do it Black Flag style anymore?

[Jed Rexford]

 

AS far as the music business is concerned, it might as well be 100 years ago. Hey, go for it. You're young and have the time and the energy and the inclination. Just keep in mind that when BF started out, there was a real punk scene that people were really into. Today, there isn't. Instead, there are many, many more splintered sub genre niche markets each drawing small crowds and you'll be competing with local bands playing for nearly free. If that doesn't bother you, have at it.

 

 

I don't agree and I think that anyone who says this has not actually attempted to tour like this. I have done exactly what you are suggesting, and while it wasn't Black Flag style punk, it was one of these "very splintered" subgeneres, and after two tours of getting around and making connections, it went great. It took a couple of tours to work out, but it worked out.

 

If you don't mind sleeping on floors and eating whatever people cook for you, you will have a good time. If you are smart and stay DIY with your merch, you will can scrape by until things catch on and meet a lot of good people in the mean time.

 

"In my day" (7 years ago), we met other punks in other towns through small punk/indie label email groups. You meet other groups who like the same things as you and naturally strike up friendships. You go to their towns and play with their bands on shows they set up.

 

Now you use myspace to make the same connections, not so different.

 

It really isn't that hard, but the main things are you have to be thrifty and you have to put on a good show so that people are excited to see you when you come, and so word spreads and more people come the next time. Make it so that people tell their friends, "you HAVE to come see this band." Also it helps to be in a band that really gets along, because otherwise your tour is going to be a roving hell on wheels.

 

I think that the whole "the music business has radically changed because of iPods and myspace" is somewhat of a myth when it comes to underground, small-scale music. Kids still like going to shows and having fun. That much hasn't changed.

[Jed Rexford]

 

DING DING DING DING DING DING DING!!! We have a winner!

 

 

Nah, it's not always true. I know of a LOT of bands that did fine without guarantees or agents.

[ari]

 

With enough time and ambition, I think this could really work if we go all out. If I don't I feel I'll regret it for the rest of my life, and nothing scares me more.

 

 

I can't join in the discussion of punk scene, but I definitely applaud you for realizing this. I don't think you really need others discussing whether you have a chance to make it. You already know what you must do.

 

So do it with everything you got, do it with wild abandon. It's that kind of energy that can and often do make unthinkable things to happen.

 

Good luck!

 

ari

[The*Ataris]

 

No, we are asserting the same idea. But your statements are couched on the assumption that people in random towns will go to your shows just because you're throwing a show. That's not true. You and your bandmates have to work hard to promote that show. I don't even think it was like that 25 years ago, 50 years ago, or 100 years ago. If people arent aware of your presence then how can you expect them to show up to your event? You're right that in the past people might have been more curious about new bands in town because it was something new and not as accessible. Anyone can go on myspace or band sites now and find out when their favorite groups are in town and they have the right to avoid any other groups that they're not interested in. But it's your job to peak that interest within people and get them to come out. You act as if a band on a DIY tour can't do that in addition to making money on each stop of the tour. And if myspace is so detrimental, then why don't you cancel your account?

 

 

I think there's some miscommunication here...

 

I'm merely relaying the sentiments of a certain Bill Stevenson, whom I was lucky enough to work for during a six month span of my life. The way he described life in an underground band back then is completely different than my experiences today, and that is what I'm trying to convey in this thread.

 

Have you ever seen "Another State of Mind"? Some guy documented Social Distortion and Youth Brigade touring the country in a school bus, and half the time he would interview kids going to the show, they wouldn't even know who was playing. "Some band from California, right?" They were there just because bands were in town.

 

You don't have to tell me how important it is to self-promote an underground band, and believe me, Myspace is a tool that we use the hell out of. Where have I ever said it's detrimental to the modern underground band? I only said that it's counterintuitive to the touring methods of 25 years ago. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily; it's just different.

 

Go ahead, try and book a show at a popular small club somewhere across the country, let's say The Hi-Dive in Denver, Colorado. We can play there because we have a local crowd and positive local press, but they won't even touch your promo pack, as a national band, unless it was solicited by a booking agent, and that's straight from the owner's mouth. They just get too much crap on a daily basis from bands trying to do it themselves who have zero national pull and nothing to offer the club financially. These bands are not worth the Hi-Dive's time--period.

 

So, what's your next option? Well, you call some place like Joe's Bar and hope somebody is there to watch on a Tuesday. Good luck on making enough money to get to your next stop too. In fact, good luck making any money at all. They might give you a free pitcher of beer, though. Do you have any idea how far away Salt Lake City, Lawrence, and Albuquerque are from Denver? Far!

[sabriel9v]

I think there's some miscommunication here... I'm merely relaying the sentiments of a certain Bill Stevenson, whom I was lucky enough to work for during a six month span of my life. The way he described life in an underground band back then is completely different than my experiences today, and that is what I'm trying to convey in this thread. Have you ever seen "Another State of Mind"? Some guy documented Social Distortion and Youth Brigade touring the country in a school bus, and half the time he would interview kids going to the show, they wouldn't even know who was playing. "Some band from California, right?" They were there just because bands were in town. You don't have to tell me how important it is to self-promote an underground band, and believe me, Myspace is a tool that we use the hell out of. Where have I ever said it's detrimental to the modern underground band? I only said that it's counterintuitive to the touring methods of 25 years ago. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily; it's just different. Go ahead, try and book a show at a popular small club somewhere across the country, let's say The Hi-Dive in Denver, Colorado. We can play there because we have a local crowd and positive local press, but they won't even touch your promo pack, as a national band, unless it was solicited by a booking agent, and that's straight from the owner's mouth. They just get too much crap on a daily basis from bands trying to do it themselves who have zero national pull and nothing to offer the club financially. These bands are not worth the Hi-Dive's time--period. So, what's your next option? Well, you call some place like Joe's Bar and hope somebody is there to watch on a Tuesday. Good luck on making enough money to get to your next stop too. In fact, good luck making any money at all. They might give you a free pitcher of beer, though. Do you have any idea how far away Salt Lake City, Lawrence, and Albuquerque are from Denver? Far!

 

 

Ok. If I did want to play the Hi-Dive or any other reputable venue in Denver, all I have to do is ask someone like you who's in a Denver band and understands the scene. I could contact you and other Denver bands through myspace. The knowledge we would have obtained from your band and other Denver groups about the scene would create better opportunities for us while planning a tour...and that's all done through myspace As for the kids in Another State of Mind, you don't think that people like that exist today?

[soundwave106]

 

So, what's your next option? Well, you call some place like Joe's Bar and hope somebody is there to watch on a Tuesday. Good luck on making enough money to get to your next stop too. In fact, good luck making any money at all. They might give you a free pitcher of beer, though. Do you have any idea how far away Salt Lake City, Lawrence, and Albuquerque are from Denver? Far!

 

 

Sure, I've seen "national bands" tour without any draw whatsoever, trying to book bars. It ends up being kind of sad. On the other hand, a band with national draw will get heads into the bar, even on a Tuesday. Joe's Bar will be pleased with the later.

 

If you have some kind of draw, you'll easily find local bands and friends willing to help you book. Furthermore, I don't think there was ever a time that building up a rep locally and/or regionally was required before thinking nationally.

[Jed Rexford]

 

Go ahead, try and book a show at a popular small club somewhere across the country, let's say The Hi-Dive in Denver, Colorado. We can play there because we have a local crowd and positive local press, but they won't even touch your promo pack, as a national band, unless it was solicited by a booking agent, and that's straight from the owner's mouth. They just get too much crap on a daily basis from bands trying to do it themselves who have zero national pull and nothing to offer the club financially. These bands are not worth the Hi-Dive's time--period.

 

 

When I was booking tours (as mentioned earlier - this was between four and seven years ago), you didn't ever just call or send materials to a club, rarely even to a house that did shows (though they would be more accepting if they weren't doing a ton of shows).

 

Instead, you talked to your contact in that city - usually someone who was in a band that you liked there who had friends who were into music, and who regularly set up shows for touring bands (I was one of these people in my town for the type of music I was into). Sometimes this was someone you had meet previously when they were in your town or vice versa, but usually it was someone who's name was handed off to you from another friend.

 

You asked them if they could set up a show with their band and/or some other local bands, and/or coordinate with another touring band that would be around at the same time. This person usually would book the show and make fliers (sometimes even nice colored silk screen posters) and hang them up around town out of the goodness of their heart because they enjoyed music and having good bands come through town.

 

The club where you set up the show usually did its own calendar in the local papers and also hung posters all over its windows, but most of it was word of mouth.

 

There was a person like this in each city, usually a member of some well known local band. It was an unspoken swap that just worked because everyone involved was into music - you would book for other people and they would book for you when you came out on tour.

 

Like that you could book quite a successful tour with no booking agents, no promo packs, and no one taking a cut for promotional costs (other than whatever cut the venue took, which in some cases was nothing from the door as long as they sold enough drinks).

 

I don't think much has changed in this regard. You can still book a tour for free in the same exact way.

[BlueStrat]

 

I don't agree and I think that anyone who says this has not actually attempted to tour like this. I have done exactly what you are suggesting, and while it wasn't Black Flag style punk, it was one of these "very splintered" subgeneres, and after two tours of getting around and making connections, it went great. It took a couple of tours to work out, but it worked out. If you don't mind sleeping on floors and eating whatever people cook for you, you will have a good time. If you are smart and stay DIY with your merch, you will can scrape by until things catch on and meet a lot of good people in the mean time. "In my day" (7 years ago), we met other punks in other towns through small punk/indie label email groups. You meet other groups who like the same things as you and naturally strike up friendships. You go to their towns and play with their bands on shows they set up. Now you use myspace to make the same connections, not so different. It really isn't that hard, but the main things are you have to be thrifty and you have to put on a good show so that people are excited to see you when you come, and so word spreads and more people come the next time. Make it so that people tell their friends, "you HAVE to come see this band." Also it helps to be in a band that really gets along, because otherwise your tour is going to be a roving hell on wheels. I think that the whole "the music business has radically changed because of iPods and myspace" is somewhat of a myth when it comes to underground, small-scale music. Kids still like going to shows and having fun. That much hasn't changed.

 

 

No offense, but 7 years ago is a long time ago in today's music business. I would bet the number of bands playing for free has increased five fold.

 

And yeah, you could probably do it if you like sleeping on strangers' floors or in the van, wearing dirty clothes and eating a lot of junk food.

No thanks. I'm WAY too old for that.

[the-good-way]

 

And yeah, you could probably do it if you like sleeping on strangers' floors or in the van, wearing dirty clothes and eating a lot of junk food. No thanks. I'm WAY too old for that.

 

 

 

from what I understand of the conversation, I gather someone of your genre (from your name I assume you are a blues/ bluesrock type musician - yes?) and life situation wouldn't be a typical participant

(FWIW - I don't have a strong opinion as I'm not plugged into this subculture. Like bluestrat , I'm way too...well something)

[The*Ataris]

Sure, I've gotten no-name national bands on certain bills, but then the clubs expect me to draw enough for that band as well or else it's just more advantageous to book another local band. It's pretty vicious around here...

 

...I mean, it's tough to tour out west--period. Every club really has to make sure you're not wasting their time.

 

Listen, everyone. I'm not saying this is impossible; I'm just saying it's harder than it used to be.

[scarecrowbob]

"And yeah, you could probably do it if you like sleeping on strangers' floors or in the van, wearing dirty clothes and eating a lot of junk food.

No thanks. I'm WAY too old for that."

 

We did that to Ohio and back once.

 

It isn't so much that I'm too old for that as that it's not sustainible. At some point, I had kids, and I have to grow them up.

 

Maybe I'll be a crazy old man doing whatever cool drugs have been discovered at what ever is the 2068 version of Burning Man, but if you want to live a good ol' "normal" capitalist life... or heck, if you just want to raise your kids in a way that won't get you arrested for negligence, touring like tyhat (or reall, playing music like we were doing, which was the late '90s for me) isn't sustainable.

[thedolaon]

 

If you have some kind of draw, you'll easily find local bands and friends willing to help you book. Furthermore, I don't think there was ever a time that building up a rep locally and/or regionally was required before thinking nationally.

 

 

True!

[BlueStrat]

from what I understand of the conversation, I gather someone of your genre (from your name I assume you are a blues/ bluesrock type musician - yes?) and life situation wouldn't be a typical participant (FWIW - I don't have a strong opinion as I'm not plugged into this subculture. Like bluestrat , I'm way too...well something)

 

Well, yeah. but I wasn't always an old blues geezer. I played in rock bands as a kid, and I did 3 years straight on the road. I never played in a punk band, though, and it never crossed my mind to hit the road to go play in basements and people's houses for whatever I might get. I had an agent, did the 6 night a week gigs, and did my originals along with about 35 covers every night.

 

Different scene and different time, I guess. Which is kind of my point. The music business was pretty much done the same way for about 40 years, bands playing 5 and 6 night gigs or one nighters as headliners, traveling across the country in buses and vans, etc. But they were contract gigs, and people had agents, etc etc. Local bands played local gigs, but if you were traveling, you did it to make a living, and for that you needed an agent. The idea of 'making it' was incidental, since no one could really make a record unless you got signed by a label. Basically, I was a 25 year old kid in 1980 playing music for a living on the road, making 400-500 a week with rooms and one meal a day covered.

 

Of course, those days are long gone unless you're doing a hotel lounge circuit or you're a sideman for a high profile national act. The music business has changed radically since the 1990s, and seems to re-invent itself more rapidly every year. The rules of the game are completely different, if in fact they even exist anymore. In 2000, what worked in 1990 was no longer applicable. In 2005, what worked in 2000 was no longer applicable. In 2008, what worked in 2005 is probably outdated.

 

I'll say this, though- if someone can go out and gig the way Jed Rexford says he did, I'm impressed, and my hat's off to him. I'm for anyone getting any kind of success they can in this business, and having a great time in the process. What he described ain't for me, but that doesn't mean it isn't valid, or possible.

[BlueStrat]

 

I also advise stopping in cities bands/artist don't usually stop in. Get fans in unexpected places!!!

 

 

This is true. In my last band, when I was trying to be something, I tried the cities a few times ( Portland and Seattle; I live in the northwest) and lost my ass (I had a 5 piece and I paid all my guys a minimum of 100 bucks a show each, which means I lost money). I found, though, that by playing small towns around the area, I made great money and built a loyal following. After I got booked into some high profile festivals, and had a few CDs out, some of those small towns would pay me $1000 to $1500 for a night and make a special event out of it. They treated us like rock stars, too, because they were so starved for professional bands. Even places in Montana were paying $750-1200 a night. We could go to Kalispell Friday night and Helena Saturday and come home with 300 dollars apiece for the weekend after expenses. That was 5 years ago. Don't know what it's like now, since these days I just pretty much play solo, duos and stay local with a cover band .

[sabriel9v]

 

"And yeah, you could probably do it if you like sleeping on strangers' floors or in the van, wearing dirty clothes and eating a lot of junk food. No thanks. I'm WAY too old for that." We did that to Ohio and back once. It isn't so much that I'm too old for that as that it's not sustainible. At some point, I had kids, and I have to grow them up. Maybe I'll be a crazy old man doing whatever cool drugs have been discovered at what ever is the 2068 version of Burning Man, but if you want to live a good ol' "normal" capitalist life... or heck, if you just want to raise your kids in a way that won't get you arrested for negligence, touring like tyhat (or reall, playing music like we were doing, which was the late '90s for me) isn't sustainable.

 

 

 

That's why I say I've got until I'm 30 to pursue music hardcore and after that I'm getting a real job. A career per se. The industry is so fragmented with different genres and bands trying to make it, so I can either work to become a niche competitor and hope that evolves into something or I'm not going to derive any major benefits from the music industry. Really the more I learn about the industry and compare that to the mainstream perception of it, I'm amazed at how the very same people who don't understand the basic functions and responsibilities of a working musician are the ones who place that individual in the position where they're at. For instance, you wouldn't apply for a job at Microsoft and have someone who's computer illiterate interview and hire you. But the relationship between bands and potential fans is a lot like that. Often times they don't understand the struggle we're put through and I don't know if half of them empathize...but these are the people responsible for paying my bills. I suppose if I were to look hard at it, at the age of 30 I wouldnt have the patience to do a lot of what I do now as a musician. At that age I could do plenty of other things that require less travel and pay me more money.

[BlueStrat]

 

Furthermore, I don't think there was ever a time that building up a rep locally and/or regionally was required before thinking nationally.

 

 

Maybe not, but it used to be that unless you are getting some kind of national press or airplay, touring nationally didn't get a band squat without creating a buzz in their own hometown and region first. It used to be that you had to play a venue at least haldf a dozen times to begin to get any kind of following. as a f'rinstance, Springsteen didn't put a band together and hit the road. He became a big deal in New Jersey/ New York before he toured. Ditto SRV in Texas. And the Eagles in SoCal. Etc etc etc.

 

Then again, as I said in a previous post,the rules are totally different now. With all the networking tools available today, it's a lot easier to get hooked up nationally than it used to be. The trick seems to be in getting paid to do it.

[soundwave106]

Maybe not, but it used to be that unless you are getting some kind of national press or airplay, touring nationally didn't get a band squat without creating a buzz in their own hometown and region first. It used to be that you had to play a venue at least haldf a dozen times to begin to get any kind of following. as a f'rinstance, Springsteen didn't put a band together and hit the road. He became a big deal in New Jersey/ New York before he toured. Ditto SRV in Texas. And the Eagles in SoCal. Etc etc etc.

 

I looked at my wording and it totally sucked.

 

I think that's what I was trying to say: you *need* to create a local buzz before touring. I think you can create a buzz in a niche a bit faster these days with the tools of today, and can expand your horizons a bit (for instance, in small niches, you may need to think regional).

 

But overall I don't think that the basic rule has changed: start small and grow. We've played with "national" or even "regional" niche bands that we *knew* had a buzz. They drew well enough, even at Joe Bob's bar type places. These bands can tour without agents -- they won't get paid *well* but they'll live the "Black Flag" lifestyle I guess for a while. Some seem to live that lifestyle forever.

 

We've played with "national" bands that no one knew diddly squat about. Those who came to these shows went to see the local acts, and left before the "national" act went on stage. When it comes to national touring ambitions, bands need to know when to say when.

[sabriel9v]

Maybe not, but it used to be that unless you are getting some kind of national press or airplay, touring nationally didn't get a band squat without creating a buzz in their own hometown and region first. It used to be that you had to play a venue at least haldf a dozen times to begin to get any kind of following. as a f'rinstance, Springsteen didn't put a band together and hit the road. He became a big deal in New Jersey/ New York before he toured. Ditto SRV in Texas. And the Eagles in SoCal. Etc etc etc. Then again, as I said in a previous post,the rules are totally different now. With all the networking tools available today, it's a lot easier to get hooked up nationally than it used to be. The trick seems to be in getting paid to do it.

 

Having a booking agent work your national tour can be tremendously helpful. Once again another Band A/Band B scenario I've got friends in Band A and right now they're actually touring Europe. They used a booking agent this time because last summer their "national" tour went to {censored}. They didnt want to use a booking agent and ended up playing to five-ten people in venues in San Francisco and Seattle. The European tour is not much better, but at least they have comfortable hostels to stay at instead of the van. My friends in Band B hired a booking agent from the get go and have surpassed Band A in terms of resources and really everything. They focused on nailing the Athens/Atl areas and now they've embarked on a national tour and have been highly successful. They're playing Bonnaroo and Languerado. They have their own bus complete with amenities. Overall their conditions on tour are comfortable. But Band B is lucky because they play a style of music that is more popular than Band A. So they have more mobility in terms of concert venues they can play and music festivals too. But more importantly Band B has not shunned external help from people the same way as Band A and they embrace their fans so people will consistently see them.

[bigdaddydave]

First, I recommend "Get In the Van" to everyone. One of the best rock n roll books ever-Henry Rollins is a great writer. It's not a "DIY manual" or anything like that, just an affecting, well written memior of a certain dimension of time.

 

Which brings me to my second point-it was a certain dimension in time. Could you and the boys hop in the van with the gear and take off today? Sure, but how far are ya gonna get on $3 a gallon gas? From here in Santa Fe, it's 8 hours to Denver, 8 hours to Phoenix, 12 to Salt Lake City. That's if the old Ford Econoline can even make it that far.

 

Maybe so...but I dont know if I necessarily agree with that either. I don't think it's necessarily the responsibility of a "rabid network" of kids to wholly and fully promote my band. It'd be great, I cant lie about that , but really it's up to the band itself to get effective promotion and networking done while on tour.

 

Yeah, but back in the 80's when I could see Black Flag at Bow Wow Records in Abq for 5 bucks, it was that rabid network of kids that kept the whole thing going-from providing the band with a floor to crash on to extra gas money to make it to the next gig. The scene supports the bands who are playing music that most people don't want to hear. It's not about "promotion" or "making contacts" or using MySpace to enhance your touring, it's about playing the music you love with no compromises-even if that means relying on the kindnes of strangers.

 

To the OP-you're 19 and full of piss and vinegar-go for it. Get the guys together, load up the van and go. Now is the time-before you're on old guy like me who can't live without the King-size pillow top mattress, much less crash on some strangers dirty floor. Pursue your dreams-and best of luck to you.

[slight-return]

 

For instance, you wouldn't apply for a job at Microsoft and have someone who's computer illiterate interview and hire you. But the relationship between bands and potential fans is a lot like that

 

 

 

wanna know a problem in SW dev?

 

it can happen...a lot more often than I wish

 

HR is a relatively low-barrier-to-entry field, so the HR guys that are acting as gatekeeper often don't have a handle on what they are really working with

 

Ive seen em do stuff like

cobble together incongruous criteria like looking for someone with more years of experience with a technology than that technology has been around (I think they used a cookie cutter spec for what "Sr. level is this many years")

and miss key terminology that is synonymous or neccsarilly implies something ("we need a linux guy, but sadly that candidate works mainly with some Debian thing")

 

I've had to fish resumes out of HR's "round file"

I remember going into an interview abt 10 years ago and was asked (by Dev manager) "I noticed you FAXed in your resume. Why that instead of email?"

 

I told him the truth...I did both, I wanted to test which one HR would respond to (implication : didn't trust HR with email even though it was a mature technology, system redundancy is good)

 

oh, let's not forget staffing vultures...often not-well-versed in their subject matter AND mercenary...oh they're all about "getting the right person in the saddle"...yeah right

[Lurko]

Do yourself a gigantic favor. Go to college. Tour during college breaks. Study hard, and tour hard on the breaks. You only get one chance to make your future secure. Don't {censored} it up trying to be Henry Rollins.

[sabriel9v]

 

Do yourself a gigantic favor. Go to college. Tour during college breaks. Study hard, and tour hard on the breaks. You only get one chance to make your future secure. Don't {censored} it up trying to be Henry Rollins.

 

 

Bigdaddydave, you said, "It's not about "promotion" or "making contacts" or using MySpace to enhance your touring, it's about playing the music you love with no compromises-even if that means relying on the kindnes of strangers."

 

That sounds like hippie bs coming from you BDD. If its not about promotion, making contacts, and using myspace to do so, why am I even on tour? I'm not going to to drive all the way to a place like New York and not expect to make some connections with other bands and promote my own music and shows. Should I just play for free and rely on the kindness of strangers instead? Maybe...the first couple times I play there, but not repeatedly. Relying on the kindness of strangers hasn't gotten me anything so far, so why would I bank on that when it comes to my career?

 

To the OP, I totally agree with Lurko. I'm in college myself and I'm doing exactly what he said.

[Jed Rexford]

No offense, but 7 years ago is a long time ago in today's music business. I would bet the number of bands playing for free has increased five fold. And yeah, you could probably do it if you like sleeping on strangers' floors or in the van, wearing dirty clothes and eating a lot of junk food. No thanks. I'm WAY too old for that.

 

The poster asked if you could do it Black Flag style... by the way, a lot of punks are into organic food and cooking, so you can eat very healthy on tour! People are very nice and it isn't usually too bad where you sleep. As for being dirty... again, he said Black Flag style

 

It may be true that more bands are playing for free but I know I could be touring right now for the same or more money than I did 4-7 years ago because there is a community of people who appreciate that type of music. The bands that put on a good show will continue to bring people in and make money, and if the clubs aren't paying, you can do just as well in underground house and warehouse shows if we are talking about underground music. If playing music and having fun is what you want to do, that is a good way to do it.

 

I would agree with the poster who said to tour on your breaks in college though, as you can find out that way if it is for you. If it is, and your band is doing well, you could quit school for the time and just tour when you discover that to be the case.

 

On the other hand, you could go on tour, get in a fight with your band and that is it, so it is good to have a plan B.

[Jed Rexford]

 

Maybe not, but it used to be that unless you are getting some kind of national press or airplay, touring nationally didn't get a band squat without creating a buzz in their own hometown and region first. It used to be that you had to play a venue at least haldf a dozen times to begin to get any kind of following. as a f'rinstance, Springsteen didn't put a band together and hit the road. He became a big deal in New Jersey/ New York before he toured. Ditto SRV in Texas. And the Eagles in SoCal. Etc etc etc. Then again, as I said in a previous post,the rules are totally different now. With all the networking tools available today, it's a lot easier to get hooked up nationally than it used to be. The trick seems to be in getting paid to do it.

 

 

I am just speaking from my experience, and it may be dependent on the genre and niche of music, the local scene, etc, but for my band, we couldn't get shows in our town very reliably, but we went out on tour and did very well out of town. We started playing a lot of shows in a different city in the region as well, usually two or more times a month getting invited out there to play. Eventually, we put out a couple of records and then the type of music we made caught on in our town and we then played a lot more shows locally. We eventually stopped the band and kept getting offers to play locally that we had to turn down.

[BlueStrat]

Well, like I said, I'm for success wherever it may be found!