Tech 21 SansAmp: Leeds or British?

[Tone Deaf]

 

1. SansAmp aren't really modeling technology, they're 100% analog circuitry. 2. They don't move air the same way, but the audience doesn't care about air moving, they care about how it sounds. 3. You can play a SansAmp through a cabinet by using a power amp. That's what I do.

 

 

1. Splitting hairs. Some folks (including me) apply a broader definition to what we consider modelling technology. Digital/analog...I don't really care. If the gear is trying to simulate something else, I think it's fair game to categorize it as modelling technology.

2. I'm not a total moron. I know that audiences don't care about air moving. It was my way of pointing out that in my experience, a pedal plugged into a power amp, plugged into a speaker, is not the same experience, and not the same sound as plugging into a full on tube amp. It doesn't have the same sound, and definitely doesn't have the same oomph/air/ass/power (insert whatever descriptor you'd like) behind it.

3. See # 2.

 

If it satisfies you, that's all that matters. But in my experience, I've just always found this sort of approach to be a compromise. Hell, I'd love to find a $200 16 ounce solution to squeezing out that classic Vox/Marshall/Hiwatt/Fender tube sound and power. Trust me, my wallet and my back would thank me. I was simply observing that I don't think we're there yet, and the difference is worth it to me. YMMV.

[honeyiscool]

To be honest, I think Character Series pedals aren't really trying to be those amps, they're merely inspired by those amps but in realize, Tech 21 pedals are generally more versatile and varied in the things they can do than many of the amps they are inspired by. You wouldn't hear a guitar through an Oxford pedal and think it was an Orange amp.

[bsman]

Look at Tone Deaf's gear list. With that sort of dosh he's invested in his gear, there's no way he's ever going to be convinced that it could possibly be convincingly replicated by a small stomp box!

[Grantus]

I'd go for the Liverpool myself.

[honeyiscool]

Look at Tone Deaf's gear list. With that sort of dosh he's invested in his gear, there's no way he's ever going to be convinced that it could possibly be convincingly replicated by a small stomp box!

 

But he has a Triton Extreme! That's like soooo 2005.

[Tone Deaf]

Look at Tone Deaf's gear list. With that sort of dosh he's invested in his gear, there's no way he's ever going to be convinced that it could possibly be convincingly replicated by a small stomp box!

 

And someone with no dough to spend on gear is always going to say that their $299 Agile through a modelling amp/pedal sounds "just like the real thing." So who is really in denial?

[bsman]

We're all "Brothers in GAS!"

 

[honeyiscool]

 

And someone with no dough to spend on gear is always going to say that their $299 Agile through a modelling amp/pedal sounds "just like the real thing." So who is really in denial?

 

 

My $399 Agile cost more than my MIJ Fender Strat.

[honeyiscool]

But in reality, it's not the money, it's the convenience that I value. Having spent some time with amps, after a while I just get sick of them. They're heavy, bulky, and often play poorly at bedroom volumes. They're also a bitch to record in a way that won't get you evicted. I'd rather have gear that allows me to get optimal performance no matter what the setting, and without having to carry around "steal me" amps that might as well be made of cinder blocks.

 

I spend plenty of money on gear. Any money I saved on an amp, I promptly spent on my QSC speakers. If I plug my pedalboard into my Soundcraft mixer and QSC speakers like I regularly do, that's a $2200 rig.

[Tech21NYC]

Our pedals use analog circuits and are pretty different from a digital modeler. There is no A/D conversion so your guitar signal stays analog. It's up to the player to decide which he prefers.

 

Whether it be our SansAmp circuits or a digital modeler, they are emulating or modeling the sound of a "mic'd" guitar amp. To really compare you have to know what it's like to play an actual amp that is mic'd without being next to it. This is quite common in some studios and for live performances. The "feel" of an amp is a combination of the electronic circuit but also the physical relationship between the player and the speaker cab. Where you stand, the type of speaker used, open back closed back cab etc. will all have an impact of the feel.

 

The speaker sim in our SansAmp circuits is designed to work "with" your guitar amp's speaker. For the most realistic "amp-like" response, playing through an actual guitar speaker cab will usually work the best. We all love tube amps here and have and use them. Unfortunately there are many situations where using a 50 watt or even 20 watt amp will not be practical.

 

My 2 cents. Don't think of amp emulation or digital modeling so much as an "either or" proposition but as an alternative.

[mightysasquatch]

Just wanted to say that I haven't played either, but the Live At Leeds album is a kickass tone, so that one!

[BoneNut]

I've been interested for a long time in a Tech 21 SansAmp but haven't found one here in Mexico. I guess I'll just wait for my next visit to the States.

[slushpup96]

I still listen to this cover every now and then.

[=JL=]

 

1. Splitting hairs. Some folks (including me) apply a broader definition to what we consider modelling technology. Digital/analog...I don't really care. If the gear is trying to simulate something else, I think it's fair game to categorize it as modelling technology.

 

 

I understand where you're coming from, what you're saying is broadly true about one piece of gear emulating another.

I'm lucky enough to be able to use my tube stacks for every gig, but I've also owned and used Tech 21 stuff for a couple of decades.

I still think there's a worthwhile distinction to be made between analog and digital modelling, certainly in terms of "feel". Tech21 pedals are all analog and feel exactly like playing through any other high-quality pedal/amp combination. Personally I think it's better to just ignore what they're called and treat them as extremely versatile professional tools.

A Tubescreamer is actually an "analog modelling device" too, but nobody seriously expects it to sound exactly like a full-tilt plexi stack, it would be missing the point.

[Tone Deaf]

 

I understand where you're coming from, what you're saying is broadly true about one piece of gear emulating another. I'm lucky enough to be able to use my tube stacks for every gig, but I've also owned and used Tech 21 stuff for a couple of decades. I still think there's a worthwhile distinction to be made between analog and digital modelling, certainly in terms of "feel". Tech21 pedals are all analog and feel exactly like playing through any other high-quality pedal/amp combination. Personally I think it's better to just ignore what they're called and treat them as extremely versatile professional tools. A Tubescreamer is actually an "analog modelling device" too, but nobody seriously expects it to sound exactly like a full-tilt plexi stack, it would be missing the point.

 

 

I get what you're saying, and don't really disagree with any of it. I've played around with some of the Tech21 gear and have found a lot of it to be very high quality, decent sounding gear.

 

This particular line of pedals, simply by the name of the individual pedals, is irrefutably being marketed to be clones/models/copies/emulators (choose whichever semantic you prefer) of well-known existing amps. I would agree that these pedals are more versatile than boiling them down to emulators.

 

My previous posts were not intended to bash Tech21 gear, but had more to do with stating that, in my opinion and my experience that simply plugging a guitar into one of these pedals, and then directly into a powered PA speaker isn't quite going to get you where the actual amp that the pedal is based on would get you.

 

I think most people would find that observation to be pointing to the obvious, but then again, sometimes in our quests for "shortcuts" we aren't quite so discriminating.

[=JL=]

 

I get what you're saying, and don't really disagree with any of it. I've played around with some of the Tech21 gear and have found a lot of it to be very high quality, decent sounding gear. This particular line of pedals, simply by the name of the individual pedals, is irrefutably being marketed to be clones/models/copies/emulators (choose whichever semantic you prefer) of well-known existing amps. I would agree that these pedals are more versatile than boiling them down to emulators. My previous posts were not intended to bash Tech21 gear, but had more to do with stating that, in my opinion and my experience that simply plugging a guitar into one of these pedals, and then directly into a powered PA speaker isn't quite going to get you where the actual amp that the pedal is based on would get you. I think most people would find that observation to be pointing to the obvious, but then again, sometimes in our quests for "shortcuts" we aren't quite so discriminating.

 

 

Yeah I totally agree. As Tech21 themselves say, it's more an emulation of a recorded amp tone than of the amp itself.

Nothing else really captures the sheer joy of a good tube amp at stage volume.

[Tech21NYC]

The Character series were designed to give you the "character" of the specific amps they are designed to emulate. In terms of emulation or modeling when going direct you can "only" emulate or model the sound of a "recorded" amp. Having said that, don't underestimate the technology. Part of the magic of the real amp experience is the interplay of the guitar and a guitar amp's speaker moving air. We all love tube amps here but they are not always practical. Part of the design of the SansAmp is that the speaker emulation is voiced in such a way so that it will work with a typical guitar amp's speaker as well as for direct recording. I personally own our Leeds, Liverpool and British pedals as well as a Power Engine. I can tell you that if you run these pedals into a Power Engine or an amps efx return at gig volume the response and feel and sound will be very amp like because you are playing through an amp.

 

Here's a video of the amazing Doug Doppler using our Character Series pedals with a Power Engine.

 

[video=youtube;xpPsoCCktUc]

[Minnie The Moocher]

I really love the Leeds - here's a "Who-esque" demo I made with my '69 SG jr, recorded direct to the board:

 

2FXW9FuR_U0

[Willyguitar]

 

Of course, he isn't letting the treble ring out like Pete would, but we can't all be perfect. The Pink Floyd bass riff sounds amazing as well. Have you tried bass on Liverpool at all? I do consider bass performance to be somewhat important because I currently have two pedal boards with similar things on them (tuner, boost, dirt/preamp) and they back each other up and when one's on guitar, the other's on bass, so I would like to know that if I go with Liverpool, it can serve some time on bass. I also have a Tech 21 Para Driver, but I tend to record with it and I don't like it as much for live playing, plus it has a lot of good sounds but not enough signature sounds.

 

 

I should get that pedal. We play 'I can't explain' in our band. But more importantly, I work in Leeds, and frequently take a pre-work breakfast in the Refrectory where the band performed.

 

Edit: Mind you, it is flippin' expensive!