So my recordings sound.... really flat.

[smorgdonkey]

Google that ---> eq equalization primer

 

That is a definite.

 

Just look around at mixing techniques and mastering techniques. EQ is a major component. You need to sculpt the EQ...you don't need to go crazy but just try a few small cuts and learn to use high pass efficiently and that will get you miles closer to where you want to be. Look at this picture for what you want your EQ cross section to look like:

 

Also, you can mix fine with headphones...you just have to make sure that you listen to the mixes on a few stereos to make sure that what you hear in the cans is what you are getting mixed. Afrter you are used to a set of headphones you can get great results with them. You should also give your ears a rest when listening because your ears will begin to filter out certain frequencies after long periods of exposure and fatigue will also change things.

 

Starter links:

http://www.bluebearsound.com/articles/mixing101.htm

 

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun98/articles/20tips.html

 

There are so many articles it is mind boggling.

[sxyryan]

That picture helps a lot. I googled the eq primer, and I understood what it had listed, but it's nice seeing it mapped out like that.

[smorgdonkey]

Yes, that way you can see that (particularly) the bass guitar and kick drum need to be 'sculpted out' to really work together.

 

I often use high pass filter (a seting on most EQ plugins) on bass and kick drum because one it is below audible it is just stealing energy. So, high pass where you want the sound to stiop and just scoop out a few dB where you need some room. I tend to high pass vocals too and even guitar. The guitar is a wide range instrument and the lower parts of its register tend to fight with the bass a bit. In fact most guitarists feel their recorded sound is too thin but that works better with the bass.

[sxyryan]

So if I carve everything out of the eq, it won't sound like a big wall of noise? I was wondering about that, I though I was missing something. It makes sense, I was really only dividing things up by panning left and right, and eqing each track to sound good by itself. I never really thought of how the tracks have to fit together, frequency wise.

[honeyiscool]

Panning doesn't create space, it just creates panning. In fact, a good mix should sound good in mono. An excellent mix should sound listenable on cell phone speakers and the worst radio in the world.

 

 

I often use high pass filter (a seting on most EQ plugins) on bass and kick drum because one it is below audible it is just stealing energy. So, high pass where you want the sound to stiop and just scoop out a few dB where you need some room. I tend to high pass vocals too and even guitar. The guitar is a wide range instrument and the lower parts of its register tend to fight with the bass a bit. In fact most guitarists feel their recorded sound is too thin but that works better with the bass.

Agreed. Especially with digital recordings allowing you to have insane amounts of dB in the 40 Hz region**, that data is doing nothing for your music, it's just "stealing energy," as you say. Analog recordings don't really let you do this, since high pass filters are built into a lot of analog equipment, but with digital, it happens. You know when you have a track and you keep pushing the levels up and it's peaking although you swear it's not that loud? Chances are there's a lot of bass frequencies eating up space and by getting rid of them, you can bring them up a lot.

 

 

** DI bass is almost always teeming in this region, since that's where the E fundamental is. The funny thing is that the SVT cabinet cannot even produce these frequencies, yet it's probably the most classic of all bass sounds.

[smorgdonkey]

 

Panning doesn't create space, it just creates panning. In fact, a good mix should sound good in mono. An excellent mix should sound listenable on cell phone speakers and the worst radio in the world. a lot of bass frequencies eating up space and by getting rid of them, you can bring them up a lot.

 

 

True. Often the application of that first low pass filter starts to bring clarity along with more volume from other elements.

[soundcreation]

Thanks guys! I think if I get shoved in the right direction I'll get it... someday haha. Maybe I'll order a set of monitors. Any suggestions? Can't really afford anything crazy.

 

 

KRK Rokit's seem to get a lot of love for being great monitors at a lower price.

[sxyryan]

How do you folks record your drums? I did it with a 4 Mics, 2 above, on at the kick, and a room mic, but I recorded it as one track. Should I, in the future, do it as more tracks? I have the capability right now to do 2 tracks at a time.

 

I could probably just duplicate the drum track in the DAW and apply different parameters to each one, essentially making on high and one low, right?

[sxyryan]

Oh, I just wanted to say thanks to all those who have replied. I really appreciate it. I'm going to archive this thread so I have something to refer to while I'm learning.

[cephus]

I didn't listen to your mix yet, but I can share a couple mistakes that I make.

 

First is that you want the product EQ to be as flat as possible. I have this old stereo EG with a display that shows a 12 band readout of the level of each EQ band. I use the EQ in my recording software to cut the tallest peaks so that the representation of my mix doesn't look like the Cisco logo. As honey said, if you have one huge peak, you are sucking all the energy out of the rest of your mix. Then when you listen to it in the car, you turn it up because you can't hear anything and you end up frying your speakers.

 

The second thing is that I normally put one guitar track hard left and one hard right playing the same part. 19 guitar tracks are possible with DAWs, but you get so much phase cancellation that the product mix is usually weaker than just a couple tracks. If you are doubling, move the mic a little or pivot the am a couple inches between takes.

 

I have a bunch of mics but I still use a 57 on my amp all the time. Don't point it directly at the speaker. A sound man told me to imagine that the mic is a flashlight. You don't want to point it at the speaker so you get a dime sized circle of light. You want it to be at a slightly glancing angle so you get a good cross section of the tone coming off the cone.

 

I'd post some stuff, but then you'd know my real name and I couldn't be as candid when attacking george harrison or eric clapton here.

[soundcreation]

good thread....I'm getting a lot out of this...

 

thanks!

[sxyryan]

I didn't listen to your mix yet, but I can share a couple mistakes that I make. First is that you want the product EQ to be as flat as possible. I have this old stereo EG with a display that shows a 12 band readout of the level of each EQ band. I use the EQ in my recording software to cut the tallest peaks so that the representation of my mix doesn't look like the Cisco logo. As honey said, if you have one huge peak, you are sucking all the energy out of the rest of your mix. Then when you listen to it in the car, you turn it up because you can't hear anything and you end up frying your speakers. The second thing is that I normally put one guitar track hard left and one hard right playing the same part. 19 guitar tracks are possible with DAWs, but you get so much phase cancellation that the product mix is usually weaker than just a couple tracks. If you are doubling, move the mic a little or pivot the am a couple inches between takes. I have a bunch of mics but I still use a 57 on my amp all the time. Don't point it directly at the speaker. A sound man told me to imagine that the mic is a flashlight. You don't want to point it at the speaker so you get a dime sized circle of light. You want it to be at a slightly glancing angle so you get a good cross section of the tone coming off the cone. I'd post some stuff, but then you'd know my real name and I couldn't be as candid when attacking george harrison or eric clapton here.

 

Haha. I think I have mic placement down. The recording I posted was probably my second or third ever. I've learned quite a bit in that department.

 

The more I record the band, the more I learn to separate the guitar parts. I play lead, but of course you can't be soloing the whole time, especially in this kind of group. I try to play something that compliments my rhythm player's chord work. In section where we are both playing unison (usually in choruses and stuff) I like to separate them with a pan. The two guitar rigs sound complementary then. Well it does when everything works the way it's supposed to.

[sxyryan]

Another question for you knowledgable folks...

 

I understand the high and low cut fuctions, although I've only ever used the high cut in the past in audio editing for video (as a noise reduction). But what does the shelf fuction do?

[honeyiscool]

 

How do you folks record your drums? I did it with a 4 Mics, 2 above, on at the kick, and a room mic, but I recorded it as one track. Should I, in the future, do it as more tracks? I have the capability right now to do 2 tracks at a time. I could probably just duplicate the drum track in the DAW and apply different parameters to each one, essentially making on high and one low, right?

No, don't do that. Try this method:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiFOD1EeKhQ

 

If you have a mixer, try adding a little bit of snare and kick drums to the stereo track.

 

Regardless, if you have a mono track, add a bit of stereo reverb to make a slightly stereo image of it, and then place it dead center, louder than everyone else (at least I would, but this is pretty representative of how rock bands sound).

[cephus]

I read some comment that you have to have good monitors to mix/master. I agree to a certain extent, but it seems to me that most people today listen to music on earbuds. It's worth verifying you have a decent mix through earbuds. The last few things I've recorded, I didn't spend alot of time mixing using monitors. I have a few different sets of headphones that I checked the mix with. I flattened out the EQ peaks. I listened to a scratch mix on my stereo upstairs. and listened to it in a couple cars. I didn't really change anything from the scratch mix except maybe boost the snare that was pretty hot in the earbuds but buried in the car or from speakers. If it's a demo, the worst thing you can do is have a huge EQ spike that prevents you from turning it up without shredding your car speakers.

[bee3]

You'll need more than just a decent set of speakers. You need to take measures to reduce the reflections and get the appropriate bass response in your room. A lot of information can be found here: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/610173-acoustics-treatment-reference-guide-look-here.html (warning, many of the folks in those forums are real acoustician afficianados... it can be overwhelming). Try and understand the basics and do what you can to add acoustic treatment to your room... that's what I did and it made a big difference. Am I a pro... hell no. Do I even half know what I'm talking about? Probably not.

A more user friendly place for a beginner is here... http://www.homestudiocorner.com/ Joe Gilder has a knack for dumbing things down for us non-pros.

Good luck.

[smorgdonkey]

I would recommend that you use your 4 mics with one on kick, one on snare and 2 overheads...but does that mean that you have to mix those on the fly?

 

It would be highly preferable to have them into the DAW 'alone' so that you can EQ the kick and the snare as unique entities. They are the 2 most important and frequent aspects of the kit.

 

The shelf function adds or subtracts the amount to the entire section: IE high shelf starting at 1KHz with 3 dB adds 3 dB to everything 1KHz and above. They are useful but not something that I use very much.

 

 

 

You'll need more than just a decent set of speakers. You need to take measures to reduce the reflections and get the appropriate bass response in your room.

 

 

...and that's why it is good to really get used to mixing on headphones. It is just more practical.

[honeyiscool]

I find it really difficult to adjust the bass frequencies and upper midrange properly on inaccurate equipment. I've gotten to the point where I've gotten very skilled at mixing on a Sennheiser HD555, but those headphones are definitely nothing like your average earbuds and actually have very good imaging thanks to them being open full-sized headphones. You can save a lot of time by having equipment where you can hear what you need to hear while not having to bounce the mix around to various different speakers.

[honeyiscool]

You'll need more than just a decent set of speakers. You need to take measures to reduce the reflections and get the appropriate bass response in your room. A lot of information can be found here: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/610173-acoustics-treatment-reference-guide-look-here.html (warning, many of the folks in those forums are real acoustician afficianados... it can be overwhelming). Try and understand the basics and do what you can to add acoustic treatment to your room... that's what I did and it made a big difference. Am I a pro... hell no. Do I even half know what I'm talking about? Probably not.

While true, any treatment is sort of worthless if you're saddled with Bose speakers. The average carpeted bedroom isn't even that horrible IMO.

[bee3]

While true, any treatment is sort of worthless if you're saddled with Bose speakers. The average carpeted bedroom isn't even that horrible IMO.

 

 

True!

[sxyryan]

Right now most my mixing is done in a school owned apartment so my room is pretty much stuck the way it is.

 

Once I graduate and get a place, I plan on setting up a room for this stuff and I'll get deeper into the acoustics and all that.

 

For now, I'd just like to have a demo I can hand to someone and not be ashamed of, not hit the top 40 or whatever.

[sxyryan]

 

I read some comment that you have to have good monitors to mix/master. I agree to a certain extent, but it seems to me that most people today listen to music on earbuds. It's worth verifying you have a decent mix through earbuds. The last few things I've recorded, I didn't spend alot of time mixing using monitors. I have a few different sets of headphones that I checked the mix with. I flattened out the EQ peaks. I listened to a scratch mix on my stereo upstairs. and listened to it in a couple cars. I didn't really change anything from the scratch mix except maybe boost the snare that was pretty hot in the earbuds but buried in the car or from speakers. If it's a demo, the worst thing you can do is have a huge EQ spike that prevents you from turning it up without shredding your car speakers.

 

 

Maybe my headphone I use just aren't any good for this kind of work. They sound awesome when listening to professionally mastered stuff. All my mixes sounds extremely different on different sound systems.

[sxyryan]

Question on reverb.

 

I know the beginner's tendency can be to bathe everything in lots of reverb. But it is useful. Do you apply it to individual tracks that need a little something, or do you apply it subtly to the the master chain? A mix of both?

 

The room where I recorded the band is a pretty dead space, not really any natural 'verb going on. My room in my apartment has slightly more, but once again, not a lot.

[honeyiscool]

Question on reverb. I know the beginner's tendency can be to bathe everything in lots of reverb. But it is useful. Do you apply it to individual tracks that need a little something, or do you apply it subtly to the the master chain? A mix of both? The room where I recorded the band is a pretty dead space, not really any natural 'verb going on. My room in my apartment has slightly more, but once again, not a lot.

I use small amounts on each track that needs it.

[sxyryan]

I have a set of Skullcandy over the ear headphones.

 

Bought a set on clearance once because needed a set, and liked how they sounded so I've using them since. I have a old pair of Sony cans too but neither of them are anything close high end.