So my recordings sound.... really flat.

[sxyryan]

Any tips?

 

I'm trying to put together a demo for my band. I've been trying all kinds of mic placements and different stuff in post... The individual parts sound decent but it usually sound muddy or just kinda bleh when I mix it together.

 

I don't really expect to get super studio grade sounds... but I want to get them the best I can. I'm recording with mostly Shure SM58s and 57s, along with an Audio Technica 2020 condenser. I have an AKG Perception 120 that I got in a trade but I haven't really had a chance to mess with it yet. Depending on the situation I usually run out from a mixer into my line in on the computer, or use an M Audio USB interface. In my tiny school apartment I'm using a Blue Snowball USB mic. I use Logic Express as my DAW.

 

There is also an issue where the final mixes sound DRASTICALLY different on different systems. Like you think I tweeked the levels. Balance is way off, especially on stuff like harmony vocals. I'll sit at my computer with a set of Bose speakers, and get the mix to sound good, then I'll put it on my iPod and listen ont he way to class with headphones, and it is total crap.

 

I don't think my gear is totally junk, as I did some recordings of me and an acoustic and have had decent luck with clarity, so I am assuming it has something to do with positioning and eqing and stuff like that in post.

 

Any help would be much appreciated. If I could at least figure out why it sounds totally different on different sound systems I'd be happy.

[ej]

Whats your mastering chain? What eq'in are you doing to the guitar/bass/drums?

[sxyryan]

Still learning, not sure what you mean by mastering chain.

 

As for eqing I've been playing with it a lot, trying the presets, doing it manually. I'm having a particularly hard time with the bass. It's either lost in the mix or boomy, especially when I try it on different sound systems.

[sxyryan]

I should probably also mention that I'm really liking recording, and I want to learn more beyond just doing my band's demo, so if anyone knows of any good books or resources on it, I'm all ears.

[ej]

 

Still learning, not sure what you mean by mastering chain. As for eqing I've been playing with it a lot, trying the presets, doing it manually. I'm having a particularly hard time with the bass. It's either lost in the mix or boomy, especially when I try it on different sound systems.

 

 

Mastering chain is effects you put on the master out. Usually its a master EQ, compressor, and limiter. Its really fine tweaking with the EQ, compression to gel everything together and ease the work the limiter does, and a limiter to bring the volume up.

 

As for EQ, if your recorded tone is good the guitar should only need a HPF at around 80hz. The bass is tougher, try throwing a compressor on it and giving it a flatter EQ curve, scoop out the mids and little and bump up around 80Hz. It really is all a matter or taste, but that works for me.

 

How are you recording the bass?

 

How are you mixing everything? Like, whats your stereo map.

 

Posting some mixes would help me hear what issues you're having. Things are gonna sound different on different sound systems, a good monitor should have a very flat EQ so you can really hear whats happening and get a more neutral mix.

 

You can do good quality stuff at home man. I used an AT2035 for everything in this. Drums are Superior and bass was direct.

http://soundcloud.com/ejendres/remix1

[honeyiscool]

If you're having issues with translation, there's a good chance the main issue is that you can't hear your own work very well. You need a set of speakers that will allow you to be very critical with your mixes and spot the problem areas. There are a lot of inexpensive studio monitors these days which will do a good enough job, but if you're mixing on headphones or speakers not intended for mixing, you might just not be hearing yourself well.

 

As for how to make your recordings sound better, I don't think it's so much a technique as much as you want to start thinking about space. Think about how every instrument fits in the entire mix and what space it needs to be carving out. Think about the bass guitar, for instance. What is the point of a bass guitar? To hold down the low end, right? Not so. In a rock band, the kick drum and floor toms provide much of the low end, and the bass has to be a melodic instrument that has distinct notes. That means you need to cut the lowest bass frequencies and focus on delivering lower midrange and highs. Some genres do feature bass guitar as a rumble instruments, like reggae or hip hop, but notice how much space those mixes give the bass instrument, everything else seems to drop out significantly to make it happen.

 

What about guitar? Guitar is a midrange instrument, obviously, but there are different kinds of midranges, and leads usually need more highs and less lows, and a nice "warm" sound often struggles in a full band mix. Lot of times, I end up using different amp settings and guitar settings in a recording as I might live. I rarely use bridge humbuckers by themselves in a live setting because they sound too harsh, but in a recording, often they sit very well in the mix, whereas a neck single coil might sound great in person but just sort of fade into the background in a recording. Your tracks don't need to sound good solo. I would suggest you stop listening to the tracks by themselves. A mix consisting of tracks that sound great will often sound crappy combined. If you solo a lot of tracks in your favorite recording, you'd probably be surprised how thin and harsh a lot of tracks sound by themselves because the frequencies that are outside of the space they need have been EQ'd out or whatever. In a full band mix, your brain will assume they're there.

 

On that subject, I usually start out by making the drums sound good. The drums need to sound good by themselves to sound good in the final mix. Then, I mix the bass guitar until the rhythm section sounds great. Then, I add rhythm guitar or other sort of you know, filler instruments that fill out the sound. At this point, I do not allow myself to increase the drum or bass tracks, because I know that is the wrong thing to do. The lower frequencies are right because you already set them right. If you increase them now, you're just increasing junk. Then, I'll mix vocals and lead guitar and all that, always keeping a lookout for muddiness.

 

Compression and EQ are nice tools to have because they can help you carve space for each instrument. Compression, to me, is something you use to help something sit in a place. EQ, then, is where you decide what parts of the track need to exist in the final mix. Less is more when it comes to these tools, just a little bit helps a lot. I used to do a lot of panning, thinking that's what you needed to do to create space, but actually I end up leaving a lot of things in center these days. You really don't need a wide stereo image to make a really good sounding mix. I think EQ and compression is far more helpful. If you have a multiband compressor, learn to use it. A multiband compressor is like the combination of an EQ and a compressor, and it can really do wonders for instruments like electric guitar and bass guitar.

 

At the mastering level, you are looking to sweeten and do all that, but it all starts with mixing. Focus on mixing for now, mastering can come later.

[honeyiscool]

Oh, you're mixing on Bose? That's a really bad idea. These things use a lot of active EQ to make everything sound good. There's almost no way to make good mixes on Bose because they use so much circuitry to make sure they mask the problem areas of music, the reason why they're so popular for consumers and so hated by professionals. You need speakers that will tell you that a crappy mix sounds crappy.

[sxyryan]

The song you posted sounds really clear and crisp... that's what I'm lacking.

 

For the recording I'm posting, bass was mic'd, if I remember correctly it was with a sm57. I've since starting doing it through the bass amp's DI, seems a little more controllable that way. As for the mix, I've just been experimenting, trying to get everything heard without stepping on any toes. I've also been trying to study professional recordings, trying to pick out where stuff is placed. Usually I keep bass and drums in the middle, then pan other stuff slightly to the left and right.

 

My master chain I've pretty much been using one of the default in Logic that seems to keep the gain down, but I'm never overly happy with it. Not really sure what to tweak. I'll try some of the stuff you said though, see if gets me any closer. I want to pick up a set of decent studio monitors, it's real high on my list of gear to get next.

 

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11566364

[sxyryan]

 

Oh, you're mixing on Bose? That's a really bad idea. These things use a lot of active EQ to make everything sound good. There's almost no way to make good mixes on Bose because they use so much circuitry to make sure they mask the problem areas of music, the reason why they're so popular for consumers and so hated by professionals. You need speakers that will tell you that a crappy mix sounds crappy.

 

 

That would explain a lot of my issues. I have a half decent set of headphones, but I remember reading somewhere that you really shouldn't mix with headphones?

 

Edit: didn't read your first post.

[ej]

 

Oh, you're mixing on Bose? That's a really bad idea. These things use a lot of active EQ to make everything sound good. There's almost no way to make good mixes on Bose because they use so much circuitry to make sure they mask the problem areas of music, the reason why they're so popular for consumers and so hated by professionals. You need speakers that will tell you that a crappy mix sounds crappy.

 

 

This is what I was thinking.

 

I agree with almost everything Honeyiscool said, except for his bass comments (notice I offered the opposite advice). The way I see it if the bass is locked up properly with the kick you can accentuate the lows without muddying stuff up, and pulling out a little bit of the mids leaves more room for the guitar to shine.

 

But seriously, its a matter of taste. Just keep in mind you have to leave room for everything in the mix, and you carve out those spaces with EQ.

[sxyryan]

Thanks guys! I think if I get shoved in the right direction I'll get it... someday haha. Maybe I'll order a set of monitors. Any suggestions? Can't really afford anything crazy.

[ej]

 

The song you posted sounds really clear and crisp... that's what I'm lacking. For the recording I'm posting, bass was mic'd, if I remember correctly it was with a sm57. I've since starting doing it through the bass amp's DI, seems a little more controllable that way. As for the mix, I've just been experimenting, trying to get everything heard without stepping on any toes. I've also been trying to study professional recordings, trying to pick out where stuff is placed. Usually I keep bass and drums in the middle, then pan other stuff slightly to the left and right. My master chain I've pretty much been using one of the default in Logic that seems to keep the gain down, but I'm never overly happy with it. Not really sure what to tweak. I'll try some of the stuff you said though, see if gets me any closer. I want to pick up a set of decent studio monitors, it's real high on my list of gear to get next. http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11566364

 

 

Direct is the way to go for bass IMO.

 

yeah dude, that mix is all over the place. A master compressor should make everything gel together better but the first step is getting some neutral monitors. Also, when your mixing, pick a recording you want to emulate, and use it as the bench mark for your mix. There are a ton of great resources online for eq'in tips too.

 

Personally I use a pair of $20 headphones to mix. They've got a flat eq with just a little bass boost, so I just mix a little bass heavy to compensate for that. If you can afford actually moniters though get some. Headphones are not ideal.

 

Also you mix sounds cramped. Don't leave everything up the middle, you have stereo for a reason.

[honeyiscool]

Well, yeah, it's all a matter of taste. I almost always use passive P Bass style basses and so I have no idea what other basses sound like in the mix because I don't even bother finding out. I find P Basses to be time savers because they always work and cut through with very little tweaking, even if I cut a lot of the low end out, whereas I have to work harder on a J Bass type of sound to get it to sound good. I like to attenuate the 80 Hz and lower even on bass guitar because that affects the overall volume of the final mix.

 

It's easy to blame the speakers for a bad mix, but really it is probably more than half the problem in your case. You can't hear problems in a mix if the speakers won't let you. Try to get good monitor speakers with pretty good bass so you don't need a sub. I'd suggest at least 5" woofers. The problem with bad speakers is as you add more instruments, the speakers start changing what you're hearing.

 

Here's a quick demo I made the other day:

 

http://soundcloud.com/thursdays-mittens/heart-of-me-1

 

This was very rough, everything was within two takes, I mic'd my Peavey Bandit 65 with a Sennheiser e906 for the lead guitar, the rhythm guitar parts are straight into the interface with amp models, the bass guitar is a Fender Mustang Bass through the SansAmp Para Driver, and the fake drums are Addictive Drums. The vocal mic I have is a high-end stage mic, the Audio Technica AE5400, but it's a stage mic nonetheless. It did not take much time at all. Obviously if it were anything more than a quick mix, I'd probably take a lot more time with it (and girl #2's voice was off that day), but it is what it is.

 

One thing I forgot to mention in your quest for a cohesive mix is reverb. Too much reverb is a quick trip into mud city, but sometimes a bit of reverb does exactly the opposite of what you think. It can help you create space around an instrument that actually helps it sit better. You just need a little for that, though.

[ej]

 

Well, yeah, it's all a matter of taste. I almost always use passive P Bass style basses and so I have no idea what other basses sound like in the mix because I don't even bother finding out. I find P Basses to be time savers because they always work and cut through with very little tweaking, even if I cut a lot of the low end out, whereas I have to work harder on a J Bass type of sound to get it to sound good. I like to attenuate the 80 Hz and lower even on bass guitar because that affects the overall volume of the final mix. It's easy to blame the speakers for a bad mix, but really it is probably more than half the problem in your case. You can't hear problems in a mix if the speakers won't let you. Try to get good monitor speakers with pretty good bass so you don't need a sub. I'd suggest at least 5" woofers. The problem with bad speakers is as you add more instruments, the speakers start changing what you're hearing. Here's a quick demo I made the other day: http://soundcloud.com/thursdays-mittens/heart-of-me-1 This was very rough, everything was within two takes, I mic'd my Peavey Bandit 65 with a Sennheiser e906 for the lead guitar, the rhythm guitar parts are straight into the interface with amp models, the bass guitar is a Fender Mustang Bass through the SansAmp Para Driver, and the fake drums are Addictive Drums. The vocal mic I have is a high-end stage mic, the Audio Technica AE5400, but it's a stage mic nonetheless. It did not take much time at all. Obviously if it were anything more than a quick mix, I'd probably take a lot more time with it (and girl #2's voice was off that day), but it is what it is. One thing I forgot to mention in your quest for a cohesive mix is reverb. Too much reverb is a quick trip into mud city, but sometimes a bit of reverb does exactly the opposite of what you think. It can help you create space around an instrument that actually helps it sit better. You just need a little for that, though.

 

 

Yeah dude, I'm using active pickups in a P(style)bass, so that could be the difference right there.

 

Reverb can help a lot too, especially on vocals. A touch on the guitars can do wonders too.

[sxyryan]

Thanks so much guys, I really do appreciate it.

[sxyryan]

I've definitly noticed reverb is very handy. My singer has a really nasally voice, so it kind of thickens it up. That recording was done maybe 6 or 7 months ago, and he's since started taking some vocal lessons and has improved that, but his voice will always have that nasally character.

[honeyiscool]

 

The song you posted sounds really clear and crisp... that's what I'm lacking. For the recording I'm posting, bass was mic'd, if I remember correctly it was with a sm57. I've since starting doing it through the bass amp's DI, seems a little more controllable that way. As for the mix, I've just been experimenting, trying to get everything heard without stepping on any toes. I've also been trying to study professional recordings, trying to pick out where stuff is placed. Usually I keep bass and drums in the middle, then pan other stuff slightly to the left and right. My master chain I've pretty much been using one of the default in Logic that seems to keep the gain down, but I'm never overly happy with it. Not really sure what to tweak. I'll try some of the stuff you said though, see if gets me any closer. I want to pick up a set of decent studio monitors, it's real high on my list of gear to get next. http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11566364

 

 

Here's what I would do with that. The drums need to be much, much bigger. I don't think you need stereo drums, I happen to love mono drums, especially since it gives a very garage feel, but it needs to be much bigger in the mix. I like to mix everything to go behind the drums a little bit, since that's how rock bands sound live. Also, the bass guitar is too boomy, it needs to be more focused sounding, narrow it out a little bit and set the level so that the intro doesn't need it to be 5 times louder.

 

Put a compressor on the vocals so you can make it less peaky and have it sit in the mix a bit more. The guitars, I think they don't sound too bad, but the lead is too loud and the rhythm is too quiet. I would probably put the backup vocals right in the middle with the lead vocals.

 

I like the song a lot.

[honeyiscool]

 

I've definitly noticed reverb is very handy. My singer has a really nasally voice, so it kind of thickens it up. That recording was done maybe 6 or 7 months ago, and he's since started taking some vocal lessons and has improved that, but his voice will always have that nasally character.

 

 

Try to get him to sing into that SM57. It might really work.

[mediocreplayer]

Here's a quick demo I made the other day: http://soundcloud.com/thursdays-mittens/heart-of-me-1

 

This to me is very heavy on the bass, which is why I like it There is no way the vocals can be that low in the final mix, but it lends it a somewhat ethereal quality.

[honeyiscool]

This to me is very heavy on the bass, which is why I like it There is no way the vocals can be that low in the final mix, but it lends it a somewhat ethereal quality.

Short scale, overwound split pickup w/ 1/4" magnets, flatwound strings, that Mustang Bass of mine has a tremendous low end, even with an HPF. ^_^

 

As for vocals being low in the mix, I've always preferred vocals being lower in the mix. Sounds more live that way. We're not trying to rule airwaves here, we just want to sound like us.

[sxyryan]

Thanks for the compliment, Honeyiscool. It's one our limited fanbase's favorites.

 

What make is your Mustang Bass? I was thinking about getting my bassist a Squier one and pimping it out a little. He's wanted a short scale Mustang bass ever since I first met him something like 3 or 4 years ago.

[honeyiscool]

Mine is a Fender Japan reissue:

 

 

I barely touch the thing anymore, since my bandmate has it these days. It's been pimped out with Hipshot Ultralight tuners and Aero Mustang Bass pickups, which are pretty high priced parts but well worth it IMO. My favorite bass is not this one, though, but the Badtz-Maru Bronco Bass that I also modded myself. Short scale basses are great. They sound very deep and hollow. I don't really like the tone of full scale basses these days, they're too twangy for me. Plus, it's much easier to bend and get a nice vibrato on a short scale.

[AaronF]

I don't know if you've ever read Zen and the Art of Mixing, but that book is really good especially for beginners. It doesn't tell you how you should mix, per se, but it is a wealth of information and gives you a bunch of ideas as to what your options are when you are mixing. Highly recommended.

[Pope on a Rope]

Google that ---> eq equalization primer

 

And start shopping for monitors.

[sxyryan]

 

Google that ---> eq equalization primer And start shopping for monitors.

 

 

I'll check both of those out. I'm not even going to bother looking for monitors right now... I'm finishing up my senior year of college and half my guitars need rewired and main show amps need retubed or will need it in the next few months. The glories of being a rockstar.

 

I will pick up a set though, when I can.