Members xcathodex Posted January 8, 2007 Members Share Posted January 8, 2007 Originally posted by Jesse_Wray every drummer (every musician for that matter) needs to tattoo this somewhere they will always see it! you're right about this - i don't know much about drums yet, but i know from years of playing with bands that most guitarists like a scooped tone when they're playing by themselves and a scooped tone typically sounds HORRIBLE in a live situation. one of my best friends is an amp tech, and he joined a new band that had a pretty awful sounding live show. no joke, he just walked up and changed the EQ on both guitarists' amps (he was the bassist) and they were both ecstatic at how great the practice sounded. then they took their earplugs out, turned down a bit and went "UGH"...what sounds good to us in a room alone is rarely what works live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Old Steve Posted January 8, 2007 Members Share Posted January 8, 2007 Originally posted by Kevin K Is A OK Heh. I'm glad most of you understood I was just kidding around.I prefer not to muffle {censored}. It would be sinful to muffle a Pearl Mahogany Classic in my opinion. Although I understand the muffling situation depends on the room you're in, the material your drums are made out of, the heads you use, etc.And yeah it is a bitch how soundmen get pissy. I've found that most soundmen and recording dudes seem to have ONE way to do things, they want to make the drums sound the same way every time, if it ain't broke don't fix it! The trouble is that not every drummer wants to sound the same! But in their defense a lot of drummers get on stage with their {censored} all ringing out but out of tune and sounded like butt.Yeah I know Steve Gadd muffled his stuff. It sounded great. If I were playing funk or hip hop/breakbeats I would muffle stuff too. I was just talking smack in the original post, hoping to initiate some discussion on muffling and perhaps some muffling techniques.The best muffling techniques are the improv ones in a pinch. Back in high school we had crappy equipment and one of our snares was this piccolo that was so incredibly snappy and responsive that I HAD to put my wallet on it. (because I'm used to hitting snares harder...this one would project while just being tapped, it was odd!)OKAnd kudos to those who mentioned that your drums sound WAAAAYYYY different to somebody out in front of them especially relatively far away (like when your on stage) compared to what they sound like behind the kit. ESPECIALLY the snare drum. Soundguys and recording engineers can either make or break you, IMHO. Still, everybody needs to realize that it really doesn't matter what your drums like if the soundguy is just going to screw it up. You could have an amazing sounding kit, but if it's not something the soundguy knows how to deal with, it'll sound like ass out front, so as far as the world is concerned, your drums sound like ass. Luckily, most soundguys are decent people. But what about drummers? Of all instruments, ours is one of the hardest to tune, and as a result there are a much higher number of drummers out there with bad sounding drums than any other instrument. Since soundguys deal with lots of drummers, I'm sure that they run into plenty of guys whose drums sound terrible, and if/when the soundguy suggests something that could help their sound, the drummer squawks something about "his sound" and fights the soundguy on any changes. So even if my drums are tuned wide open and sound great to me, if the soundguy tells me he needs to cut back on the ring a little bit so he can dial things in better, I'm apt to try to work WITH the guy than against him. When everything is said and done, you need to figure out how to deal with EVERY variable (drum sound, soundguy skill, pa system) in order to get the best possible sound out to the audience. As a drummer, you can only really control one of these variables (unless you learn a little about pro sound and can offer solutions back to the soundguy when he comes running with his roll of duct tape). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members siberian Posted January 8, 2007 Members Share Posted January 8, 2007 Well so much for use #102 for what to do with a dead cat. They make great kick drum pillows ya know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted January 8, 2007 Members Share Posted January 8, 2007 Originally posted by siberian Well so much for use #102 for what to do with a dead cat. They make great kick drum pillows ya know. Well, you can always just put a trigger up the convinient trigger holding tube, and you're set. A lot smaller than conventional kick drum, with a better visual effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted January 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted January 8, 2007 I find this this thread pretty ridiculous. I've done everything from unported unmuffled kick with single ply tom heads and wide-open snare... to putting a towel on my snare and the stuffing the kick totally full. The bottom line is that there are recordings with HEAVILY muffled/dead drums where that sound is just RIGHT for the song, just as there are songs that call for an open sound... and everything in between. Likewise, to pretend that in EVERY live venue, with EVERY band, TOTALLY wide-open drums will ALWAYS sound best... well, sorry to be blunt, but that's stupid. Stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danrothmusic Posted January 9, 2007 Members Share Posted January 9, 2007 Originally posted by JWL Hey! Post pics of the 18" kit man! here I love 'em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted January 9, 2007 Members Share Posted January 9, 2007 Good practice: Tune open, and carry zerorings with you. Drums that sound good with no mufling generally sound pretty good when you put a zeroring on 'em - and that might allow the soundguy to do what he needs to do. If you do that and the soundguy starts approaching you with duct tape and pillows, you can surmise he's not too good at his craft. Originally posted by Old Steve So even if my drums are tuned wide open and sound great to me, if the soundguy tells me he needs to cut back on the ring a little bit so he can dial things in better, I'm apt to try to work WITH the guy than against him. When everything is said and done, you need to figure out how to deal with EVERY variable (drum sound, soundguy skill, pa system) in order to get the best possible sound out to the audience. As a drummer, you can only really control one of these variables (unless you learn a little about pro sound and can offer solutions back to the soundguy when he comes running with his roll of duct tape). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted January 10, 2007 Members Share Posted January 10, 2007 Originally posted by Actionsquid [...] Stupid. Well, sometimes, Ken Ewing playing the musical mice is the right thing.... ...but for the most part, they just produce horrified disgust in the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted January 10, 2007 Moderators Share Posted January 10, 2007 Originally posted by scarecrowbob Well, sometimes, Ken Ewing playing the musical mice is the right thing.... ...but for the most part, they just produce horrified disgust in the audience. Oh come on. I'll be the first to admit that in most live applications little-to-no muffling is generally appropriate, and that it should generally be reserved for the occasional troublesome feedback-producing mic'd drum or the unfortunately horribly reflective unsuitable room. Certainly recording is a whole different animal. Don't tell me Lennon's "Imagine", anything on T-Rex's The Slider, Bowie's The Rise and Fall..., Joy Division's Unknown Pleasures, or the Cure's Seventeen Seconds should have ALL been recorded with really wide-open, resonant drums. No way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted January 10, 2007 Members Share Posted January 10, 2007 Originally posted by Actionsquid I find this this thread pretty ridiculous. I've done everything from unported unmuffled kick with single ply tom heads and wide-open snare... to putting a towel on my snare and the stuffing the kick totally full. The bottom line is that there are recordings with HEAVILY muffled/dead drums where that sound is just RIGHT for the song, just as there are songs that call for an open sound... and everything in between. Likewise, to pretend that in EVERY live venue, with EVERY band, TOTALLY wide-open drums will ALWAYS sound best... well, sorry to be blunt, but that's stupid. Stupid. SHHHH... this is drummers you're referring to... Agree though. Funny with all the focus a drummer has on purely rhythm, how little attention is paid to note duration. Punchy attack and some din to hold it over seems to be the prime directive. And more drum hell, only the overly busy guys, will muffle their toms, usually to a compounded stupid effect. That vented, I like the wide open sound. I also think that drum companies should stop selling tatoos and engage their butts into progressive RD. Stuff like real time on the fly muting. Cymbals too for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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