Members jpo259 Posted October 17, 2004 Members Share Posted October 17, 2004 ......as one looms in my near-future, I seek out advice and opinions. To writ: I wrote off ever 'making it' in music many years ago. About three years ago, an 'itch' developed, and I sought out an opporunity that, to me, might have some potential. I found out about a rock opera being developed in Los Angeles. They needed a bass player for what they called their 'core' group for writing and development. I went to an audition in May 2003, and was informed two weeks later that I was in if I wanted. Some background. As advertised, these guys claimed that the writer was an award-winning playwrite and composer, as was the co-writer. The writer had also drummed for the Broadway production of 'Tommy' (On tour, after the principle got sick). The keyboardist was touted as a LA session player and part-time actor. They mentioned (all this in their craigslist.org ad. for a bass player), they mentioned that they expected to debut in LA fall of 2003 with a possible opening in Las Vegas by spring 2004. The music is written in the style of 70's-era hard and progressive rock, and the subject is a well-known pop icon (Evel Knievel). Having to play Roundabout at the audition, and finding that the other three could really play well, made a pretty strong impression on me. And so, they offered the 'gig' to me, and I relocated from the San Francisco area to the LA 'area' to be a part of this. Oh, and I come to find out that their claims of awards, etc, are all true, albeit not at a nationally recognized level. Oh, while I was waiting for an email notifying me of my audition, back in April 2003, I was watching CNN and along comes a little blurb during the entertainment segment about 'a rock opera being developed in LA about Evel Knievel.......'. That kinda got my attention. All this sounded to me like a pretty good opportunity. One where I could play the kind of music I love, in a potentially large and professional production, AND, I wouldn't have to be concerened with image, age, looks, etc. I'd be 'in the pit'! So, I get the part, and start working on it. Back in '03, the media attention that came the way of the writer was completely unexpected. At the time, there was no 'product'. The entire story, script and score was not even 1/4 finished. That is where I came in, helping to finish putting together songs to support scenes as they were developed. We spent the last 1.5 years writing, rehearsing, and recording what is now the only comprehensive rendering of the story. The media attention from 1.5 years ago brought enquiries from the likes af Clear Channel, Disney, La Jolla Playhouse, Mandalay Bay Productions, and Goddard Entertainment, among others. The writer has kept the ties open with some of these people, and the time is coming soon where we (he) will have his product to shop, and it just may go somewhere. AND SO......having lunch in Hollywood with the writer a couple of weeks ago, he informed me that he most likely wouldn't be playing in the production. Now, he had always said that he intended on getting another guitarist and keyboardist for the show. That we all knew. At this lunch, he insinuated that, if 'name' musicians came calling, he would love to have them associated with the production, for "my publicity", says he. And so, I ask him, where does that leave me? And he equivocates a little, and says, basically, we'll see. It's all good right now, but, we'll see." Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I have never been involved with anything that might lead to having to assign rights, percentages, etc. I don't have any complete songs to my credit on this. Only collaboration. And I feel as though I am going to be {censored}canned the moment the writer gets his backing and media attention. I was advised by a friend a while ago to think about things like agents, lawyers, and unions over this rock opera. Up to this time, it seemed to me that there was' nothing' to this 'rock opera'. But now, it seems as if there might, and I need to find out if I have a leg to stand on in regards rights to the music I was involved in writing. The recordings I made with them, and weather or not anyone here thinks it might be a good time to contact a lawyer. I feel like I am looking at a waste of 1.5 + years of my life spent helping them get this together, only to find out the, as soon as the big money (I know this is a big IF!!), comes around and Flea or some other 'name' bass player comes a callin', I'm out. It has seriosly downgraded my attitude. So, what do all you Harmony Central bothers and sisters think of this???? Any ADVICE or OPINIONS? Any insight into what I might not be seeing??? The Marine in me is prepared to just 'suck it up and drive on', but, man, this is becoming a real bummer!!!! A Rude Awaking looms!!! Any advice??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackwatch Posted October 18, 2004 Members Share Posted October 18, 2004 Go and talk to a lawyer..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lefthandpath Posted October 18, 2004 Members Share Posted October 18, 2004 I agree with Blackwatch. That AND (not instead of) read the book "Confessions of a Record Producer" by Moses Avalon as well as "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About the Music Business" by Don Passman. There are other great book, but these are probably the easier ones to find. Check out the one by Kashif if you have an opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members murphmusik Posted October 18, 2004 Members Share Posted October 18, 2004 get a lawyer before you read a book! By the time you finish a book...you'll be {censored} out of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jpo259 Posted October 19, 2004 Author Members Share Posted October 19, 2004 Originally posted by lefthandpath I agree with Blackwatch. That AND (not instead of) read the book "Confessions of a Record Producer" by Moses Avalon as well as "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About the Music Business" by Don Passman. There are other great book, but these are probably the easier ones to find. Check out the one by Kashif if you have an opportunity. I read 'Confessions.' last year. What I read in that book has always been in the back of my mind. I do want to get a lawyer. And if these guys want to screw me over, I've got some good ol' 'get-even-ness' I can send their way. I'm not too tolerant of backstabbers, liars, greedy egotists, and general {censored}s anymore. All and all, this just basically sucks. If it's the end of the ride for me, I'm going to make them pay...................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B. Adams Posted October 21, 2004 Members Share Posted October 21, 2004 Absolutely go and talk to a lawyer. You are entitled to a portion of whatever money is made on this thing. Even if they tell you to go to hell, if you helped write it, you get money for it. Since you wrote it, in part, you should also get royalties from things like recordings and ticket sales. A percentage of merchandise might be stretching it, but if you get a better lawyer than they get, you'll get what is rightfully yours, and maybe more. You should have had some sort of written agreement, but if you don't, there's still things you can do. But if these guys really do want to cut you out of the loop, you need to make sure that your part in the project is well documented. If it's not written down it doesn't exist. I'd say talk to a good entertainment lawyer. Soon. Maybe today. And not just anybody, but somebody good. You might pay more, but you'll probably get what you pay for. After you talk to the lawyer, talk to the other guy(s), but you don't have to tell them you talked to a lawyer, and you shouldn't. But get the whole story. If they do want you out, they should be able to tell you straight up. And hopefully they'll be fair, and give you your share. It might come up that they just want to pay you for your time, and send you on your way. But I wouldn't leave without a percentage, plus a flat fee. Even if you get .1%, get a percentage. .1% of $100m is a nice chunk of change. Take anything I say with a grain of salt, I'm not an entertainment lawyer, so maybe I'm way off. But the one thing I do know is that you need a good lawyer right now. And I mean right now. I hope everything goes well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted October 22, 2004 Members Share Posted October 22, 2004 DEFINITELY get a lawyer NOW!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jpo259 Posted October 23, 2004 Author Members Share Posted October 23, 2004 Originally posted by B. Adams Absolutely go and talk to a lawyer. You are entitled to a portion of whatever money is made on this thing. Even if they tell you to go to hell, if you helped write it, you get money for it. Since you wrote it, in part, you should also get royalties from things like recordings and ticket sales. A percentage of merchandise might be stretching it, but if you get a better lawyer than they get, you'll get what is rightfully yours, and maybe more.You should have had some sort of written agreement, but if you don't, there's still things you can do. But if these guys really do want to cut you out of the loop, you need to make sure that your part in the project is well documented. If it's not written down it doesn't exist.I'd say talk to a good entertainment lawyer. Soon. Maybe today. And not just anybody, but somebody good. You might pay more, but you'll probably get what you pay for. After you talk to the lawyer, talk to the other guy(s), but you don't have to tell them you talked to a lawyer, and you shouldn't. But get the whole story. If they do want you out, they should be able to tell you straight up. And hopefully they'll be fair, and give you your share. It might come up that they just want to pay you for your time, and send you on your way. But I wouldn't leave without a percentage, plus a flat fee. Even if you get .1%, get a percentage. .1% of $100m is a nice chunk of change.Take anything I say with a grain of salt, I'm not an entertainment lawyer, so maybe I'm way off. But the one thing I do know is that you need a good lawyer right now. And I mean right now. I hope everything goes well for you. I want to call around for a lawyer Monday, but.................here I sit almost broke. Depressed. Barely employed (but gigging alot!). I sit here dwelling on my situation. 1.5 years ago, I was living and working in Benicia, CA. A beautiful community about 35 minutes from downtown San Francisco. I was making over $100K/year doing what I usually do (UXO-Bomb disposal work). I had a KILLER girlfriend, and played music all around the bay area every week. And now, I sit here, almost broke, working maybe 20 hours a week doing something I hate (Geotechnical tech. work). I am in southern California, a place I have come to HATE (I grew up here, and I really do hate what it's become). I have hung on to hangin near LA for the life of this rock opera, waiting and hoping it would 'happen'. I so badly wanted (want) to be part of well-rehearsed, professional production. And this thing could be that. Plus, the music is so, So right up my alley. And now, I feel like an idiot. I refrained from mentioning rights, percentages, money, contracts, anything this past year. I felt like the lowest guy on the totem pole. The one with no bona-fides. I felt that talk of the above might poison my relationship with the others. As much as I wanted to talk to a lawyer, or an agent, I didn't. I always felt the time would come for all that. I mean, after all, "Evel Knievel-The Rock Opera" is nothing. It's no better a 'product' than anything else people are doing in lockouts in LA. I say that inasmuch as the fact that it really isn't funded or on it's way....yet. I talked with musicians union over a year ago about all this. At the time, quite a few actors and actresses', friends of the writers, were rehearsing with us. Around Sep. '03, the singers quit working on the thing. Some promised money never materialized, and they told the writer the couldn't, wouldn't do this anymore, these unpaid rehearsals. Yet, here I was, then and now, more often than not paying for the rehearsal space! The union gave me information on sideman rates for rehearsals and performances, etc. I've always used that as an idea for what might be the least amount I'd be entitled to. IF...this thing ever moved forward. So, I sit here, broke, depressed, and very jaded. I feel like a fool. I am developing regrets. I regret that I never experienced something like this when I was younger. I can easily find a bomb job somewhere, move, work, find a woman, find local musicians, and get on with my life. But then, there is the haunting thoughts of the 'what-ifs'. The old Pete Best story. Either way, I'll find a way to talk to a lawyer and see what can be done. And, I'm still 'in' this thing as far as I know. Next week, we are having a listening party for all the participants in the making of the CD. Somehow, I need to come away from this gathering with a more clear picture of my role in the production. Thanks for all of your feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bob_spez Posted October 31, 2004 Members Share Posted October 31, 2004 I know this will sound really lame to you but somewhere it is written that the trip is more important than the destination. I'm 58 years old and the greatest experiences of my life had nothing to do with success, they had everything to do with experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jpo259 Posted November 1, 2004 Author Members Share Posted November 1, 2004 Originally posted by bob_spez I know this will sound really lame to you but somewhere it is written that the trip is more important than the destination. I'm 58 years old and the greatest experiences of my life had nothing to do with success, they had everything to do with experience. Again, I say I wish this had happened when I was much younger. I might have learned something that could have helped me move forward with a career in music. Now, I am so severley dissappointed and dissillusioned that I will most likely never look for musical opportunities in Los Angeles or any other music-oriented city. It hasen't been a wonderful experience. It was all bull{censored}. All talk, so, So little action. Yeah, the rock opera COULD be reaaly cool, but so could a million other musical acts slaving in obscurity. I don't have the energy to do this again. I've been in a four-week funk now, and, who knows, maybe in the future the ligh will shine on something positive out of all this. Or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members E.A.D. Posted November 1, 2004 Members Share Posted November 1, 2004 Help me understand your goals a little bit better. Are you (1) looking to ensure that you don't get cut out of a share of the profits or (2) looking to ensure that you get a chance to play in the show? Or is it both? I might be able to help you find a competant lawyer that you can afford if you are interested in being a little bit creative. Send me an email if you want to talk, and I wish you good luck regardless. the.aw.hells@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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