Members Cross Eyed Mary Posted September 15, 2009 Members Share Posted September 15, 2009 That was Sabian. They cleaned the cymbals when they undug them. They're a SMIDGEN warmer. And that was after over 6 months in feirce Canadian soil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumtechdad Posted September 15, 2009 Members Share Posted September 15, 2009 That's a disingenuous thing to say, drumtechdad, because the clear protective finish on Paistes is not "paint". I'm sure you know that's ridiculous, but you used it in an attempt to diss Paistes. Call it what you will. They call plastic "resin" these days, too. I took the paint off my trombone bell because it sounds better. Got nuttin' against Paistes or, more importantly, the folks who love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LowPhreak Posted September 15, 2009 Members Share Posted September 15, 2009 I'd like to see you consistently pick out the untreated trombone between 2 otherwise identical ones in a blind A/B test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members manoeuver Posted September 15, 2009 Members Share Posted September 15, 2009 I'd like to see you consistently pick out the untreated trombone between 2 otherwise identical ones in a blind A/B test.that's disingenuous. I'd like to see you pick out the paistes with the protective coating removed in a similar test. or tell the difference between 2002s and As in a blind test. Or spot birch vs maple in a blind test. If I think my lucky quarter makes my snare drum sound better from my pocket should I see how it sounds with a different quarter in there just to be sure? once you take a scientific approach to why you like what you like (in a musical instrument no less) you're missing the point. What one likes doesn't require explanation or testing. It is enough that they like it and if it helps them perform even marginally better it works. Superstition is close to music and art. No need to harsh on people for it. It's no skin off your back dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AiL45 Posted September 15, 2009 Members Share Posted September 15, 2009 so whats patina? noob here, and im lost lol but as for the coke comment, coke can even clean dried blood stains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted September 15, 2009 Members Share Posted September 15, 2009 It's a metallurgical term. Or maybe not. Anyway as metal ages it develops not so subtle changes in color even iridescence in some cases. That type of discoloration is called patina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AiL45 Posted September 15, 2009 Members Share Posted September 15, 2009 ahh kk. so what? the tone just gets slightly duller over the years? i dont see the big deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted September 15, 2009 Members Share Posted September 15, 2009 The actual definition says it's dingy green corrosion. Cymbals don't necessarily have to go dead as they age. The metal structure changes and re EQs itself - often with results the ancient guys :poke: prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LowPhreak Posted September 15, 2009 Members Share Posted September 15, 2009 that's disingenuous. I'd like to see you pick out the paistes with the protective coating removed in a similar test. or tell the difference between 2002s and As in a blind test. Or spot birch vs maple in a blind test. etc. I'm not the one saying that the protective coating harms the sound, that's what dtd implied. I can't hear a significant difference from clear coated or non because it's a very thin and non-reactive layer. However, I do think a dirty or oxidized cymbal sounds duller or darker and loses some of the high freqs it originally had. (Both would be hard to test in a strictly scientific sense, because the cymbals would have to be identical in pitch, sustain, weight, etc., while having been played-in equally.) It stands to reason because if you've ever seen an oxidized cymbal's lathing grooves under magnification, you'd see how much the rust layer can physically change the grooves. Assuming you could get both drums tuned exactly the same, I think I could pick out a maple from a birch shell, all else being equal. A few years ago, I had Tama SC Performer toms mounted in place of my SC maples, same size toms (8x10, 9x12, 11x14), same heads (G1 clears), tuned as close as I could get them. The birch's sounded less full and round but 'cleaner' every time. After having played the maples for a year or so, I actually liked the cleaner, less wooly sound of the birch toms better in many cases. OTOH, had I played the birch toms for awhile, I might have liked the maples just for the change to a slightly fatter sound. I'm not saying instruments or music should be all 'scientific' or reduced to a set of empirical data points. There are times though that knowing objectively how & why something functions the way it does, rather than just subjectively, can help better explain the sound/response of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jack Thumper Posted September 15, 2009 Members Share Posted September 15, 2009 so whats patina?noob here, and im lost lolbut as for the coke comment, coke can even clean dried blood stains. best example is comparing an old penny vs new,it's just an oxidation or tarnish build up that shows age,some even go the extra step to speed up the process.Some like'em clean,some don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xtranoise Posted September 15, 2009 Members Share Posted September 15, 2009 I just wish at least one person on this forum would speak up and share their opinion I love these "discussions" (until they turn childish). Just goes to show how there are varying opinions on what sounds best and the lengths we will go to defend our position. Sound, and music, it would seem are very subjective matters. It would be rather boring if we all liked the exact same sounds, all liked the same brand, the same snare, etc.I like clean cymbals and don't have an Acrolite. But that's just me and my choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jack Thumper Posted September 15, 2009 Members Share Posted September 15, 2009 I'm not saying instruments or music should be all 'scientific' or reduced to a set of empirical data points. There are times though that knowing objectively how & why something functions the way it does, rather than just subjectively, can help better explain the sound/response of it. I think this one your best constructive response's so far in this thread and I totally agree with this quote. But what I'm seeing from you is that when the discussions become deep,the deeper your views become opinionated,then you literally become outraged and begin down grading members with insults when others remain alittle more opened mined,rather than siding with you on your opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LowPhreak Posted September 15, 2009 Members Share Posted September 15, 2009 I think this one your best constructive response's so far in this thread and I totally agree with this quote. But what I'm seeing from you is that when the discussions become deep,the deeper your views become opinionated,then you literally become outraged and begin down grading members with insults when others remain alittle more opened mined,rather than siding with you on your opinions. You're entitled to your opinion, Jack. But I usually try to deal with facts if possible, not fantasies, delusions, and myths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lossforgain Posted September 16, 2009 Members Share Posted September 16, 2009 fantasies, delusions, and myths. I'm gonna start a band with this name now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Longfuse Posted September 16, 2009 Members Share Posted September 16, 2009 ^ It will have to be a three-piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumtechdad Posted September 16, 2009 Members Share Posted September 16, 2009 ^ It will have to be a three-piece. No--six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted September 16, 2009 Members Share Posted September 16, 2009 minimum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Longfuse Posted September 16, 2009 Members Share Posted September 16, 2009 OK, three sets of Siamese twins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumtechdad Posted September 16, 2009 Members Share Posted September 16, 2009 OK, three sets of Siamese twins... Ooooh--kinky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LowPhreak Posted September 16, 2009 Members Share Posted September 16, 2009 I'm gonna start a band with this name now. Too bad some of ya are already living it, no need for the band version. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lossforgain Posted September 16, 2009 Members Share Posted September 16, 2009 Don't lump me in with that statement. I prefer intelligent debate, which is what I've given you. I only asked about the "Paiste vs. non-Paiste" thing because you brought it up in another recent thread I was on. I can understand being loyal to a brand or sound you love, but I think you border on cult-ish behavior. So much so, that you either disregard my statements or you put words in my mouth beyond what I've said. I didn't say that all oxidized cymbals sound better -- I've heard cleaned and oxidized cymbals that sound bad, and good, and everything in between. All I said was that I do not clean mine and that I like the way they sound. I prefer the natural changes that occur over time, at least in the cymbals I own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LowPhreak Posted September 16, 2009 Members Share Posted September 16, 2009 I only asked about the "Paiste vs. non-Paiste" thing because you brought it up in another recent thread I was on. I can understand being loyal to a brand or sound you love, but I think you border on cult-ish behavior. So much so, that you either disregard my statements or you put words in my mouth beyond what I've said. I didn't "put words in your mouth". I only commented on what you actually said or intentionally implied - so as they say, if the shoe fits - wear it. And if you want to start pointing fingers at "cultish behavior" around here, there are plenty in the Zildjian or Sabian or Dream cymbals camp, etc. etc., not to mention various drum brands, heads, sticks...you name it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lossforgain Posted September 16, 2009 Members Share Posted September 16, 2009 I'm not really pointing fingers. I'm just pointing out a pattern. I told you, it's fine to be loyal to your brand. Regarding the "inane statement," I'm truly sorry that my sense of humor offends you. I was trying to be lighthearted instead of coming down to your level. I guess I wasted my time. You appear to be off your rocker about a few things. So have a nice day buddy! wut kiend of stix u uzz???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LowPhreak Posted September 16, 2009 Members Share Posted September 16, 2009 And you appear to be full of {censored} about several things, which explains why you can't handle the facts when they're presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wellhungarian Posted September 16, 2009 Members Share Posted September 16, 2009 Here's my take. If you like your cymbals clean then you might want consider buying Paiste because of it's protective coating, they are easier to clean and you won't have to worry about the precious patina, Gina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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