Members MephistoE Posted March 25, 2011 Members Share Posted March 25, 2011 I'm a singer who can really only sing opera. What do I have to do to get the more rock type sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KingOfBling Posted March 25, 2011 Members Share Posted March 25, 2011 I think you kinda have to throw out a lot of the classical techniques out the window and just do it. It's good to have the fundamentals of bel canto and vocalizing and all that, but it's hard to reconcile the application of those in rock and punk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted March 25, 2011 Members Share Posted March 25, 2011 Cigs and Jack Daniels Classical training actually comes in handy for rock as well...what type of sound or singer do you have in mind as an example. Maybe I can help.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MephistoE Posted March 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 26, 2011 My voice is just way too full due to how I've learned to sing, but when I try to sing anything more... bright?... I lose a lot of range and power (doesn't feel like I'm neck singing, but I know I'm doing something wrong and have no idea where to go with this.) The likes of All Time Low, A Day to Remember, and Woe is Me. Some links: Woe is Me - Hardcore: About 16 seconds in the singing starts. Another example @ 1:58 I can sing all the notes, I just don't know where to place it. Admittedly I may be neck singing and not realizing it when I switch to this style, this is why I'm being so cautious and asking people who know more then me . All Time Low - Pop-punk: 18 seconds in the singing starts. A Day to Remember - Hardcore-Pop: I love the singing for A Day To Remember across all their albums. I can get the grit in my head voice no problem at all, so I'm assuming if I have my voice working right in chest/mix I should be able to get the grit there too with some practice. This all might just be a matter of once you tell me the placement, I will just have to learn how to control the notes and support better there, but hopefully you'll be able to enlighten me. Those are just three bands, but pretty much all modern music is brighter than what I sing now. I know if I change my vowel unification/not open my mouth as wide it can become brighter, but I've been taught it also makes it off pitch. Help this lost soul T.T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted March 26, 2011 Members Share Posted March 26, 2011 I don't know much about opera singing...they teach you to sing with a dropped larynx? Anyways, this type of sound...minus the screaming of course sounds like it's done with a raised larynx...which is not really what's going on. Some pop/punk singers do it that way and it sounds horrible...New Found Glory comes to mind, lol. The best way IMO to get this sound, and make it sound good, is "covering" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MephistoE Posted March 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 26, 2011 See, I identified the sound I'm aiming for as high larynx too, but I just can't bring myself to believe that could have been right. Usually high larynx = strain for me. But yes, when you breath in deep with a wide open your larynx is lowered automatically which creates more room for the sound to resonate generally. So for instance the nasal "ping" would be like the buzz when you say "neigh/ney"? I would love an example if you have the time!!!Then afterwards I'll post my attempt of placement based off what I hear from you to see if I'm on the right track. My biggest concern right now is I don't want to learn improperly and either A) hurt myself (I have performances next fri/sat and more after, so not hurting myself is a big deal, or B) limit myself by singing wrong, but still "getting the job done" when I could be better. Thanks for your time static/anyone else who chimes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DukeOfBoom Posted March 26, 2011 Members Share Posted March 26, 2011 that stuff reminds me of crap i listened to when i was in high school. yeah, you should be able to do this stuff no problem. you just have to do it. like golf. u suck at swinging the first 4-5 times you hit dem balls at the driving range, but you eventually get the hang of it. it doesn't matter if you hurt yourself once or twice. that's part of learning the game. you're not gonna do longterm damage if it happens once, twice, or even three times. So my advice is this: Don't be afraid to hurt yourself. But if you hurt yourself, that tells you you're not doing it correctly, so try not to hurt yourself again doing the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted March 26, 2011 Members Share Posted March 26, 2011 I'll see if I can get something recorded and posted up maybe tomorrow. But yeah, that ping you get with the "ney" is what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MephistoE Posted March 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 26, 2011 @duke, thanks for the encouraging words I appreciate it. I just like the energy of hardcore music, but your words of wisdom saying that the pain means stop your doing it wrong - try something else, is something I probably needed to hear even though I knew it. @static, I'll be doing a lot of ney ney ney on scales then. I'll probably start off with opera and slowly move towards the sounds I'm looking for each time. To be honest, you two were the ones I was hopin would respond. Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MephistoE Posted March 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 26, 2011 Also recommended reading/keywords/instructional's appreciated. I am kinda lost as to what to search for. edit:Didn't want to trip post... I use a webcam mic for recording + I'm bad at mixing but should an unedited recording with this type of mic sound like I'm yelling? I know I'm not singing from my throat, I feel no pain and I got the resonance in the ney area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DukeOfBoom Posted March 27, 2011 Members Share Posted March 27, 2011 To be honest, you two were the ones I was hopin would respond. Thanks guys I don't know why anyone would want to seek voice council from me, but regardless, I'm always happy to offer my opinion. hehehehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted March 27, 2011 Members Share Posted March 27, 2011 This is my problem too, except I'm not operatic naturally and have never been trained at all. Duke, you're useful in this topic cause you DO sing rock, how Meph wants to sing (or develop further, etc)...and your words about not being afraid to hurt yourself, they're very true. I must take this advice myself. I'm not really worried about HURTING myself, cause I tend to do this vocally anyway at times without meaning to, but my thing is I'm scared to SOUND really, really bad...so I'm scared of hurting my ears really, heheh. I am so lazy, I don't want to have to realise I suck at singing rock and hard and loud songs and would have to start ALL over again and somehow learn a different way of singing to do it...*groan* But yeah...I'm interested to see where this thread goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MephistoE Posted March 27, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 27, 2011 I'm interested in working my ass off once I figure out how to do this right! @grace, Hope you gain from this too . I wouldn't say my voice is operatic naturally, it's just how I've been trained and performing. I'd be distraught if I couldn't accompany my guitar with my voice in my metal band except with operatic tone!!! Lol. Anyways update from yesterdays long practice on this: I practiced singing some tracks using that ping you talked about static, the result was a "brighter sound"(definitely more like the tone I am aiming for), but when I listened to myself back it sounded like I was yelling. I know my diaphragm was engaged the whole time, I could feel it, but after about one hour of on/off singing my voice seemed to be really tired which is something I've never experienced. My head-voice was also unable to go as high when I warmed down as it usually should post practice. Was I pushing too hard? Was it likely I wasn't focusing the tone enough? (I know I still need practice with this, as I just learned it.) I'm thinking it's probably a mixture of those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted March 27, 2011 Members Share Posted March 27, 2011 I'd be distraught if I couldn't accompany my guitar with my voice in my metal band except with operatic tone!!! Lol. This would actually be pretty cool, IMO...haha. Idk, it should def give the "illusion" that your yelling, maybe you were pushing it too hard? Although, rock does take some stamina and physical effort...on top of running around the stage like an idiot, haha. If you weren't hurting, maybe you just reached your limit for the day? I'll try to get something recorded later tonight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MephistoE Posted March 28, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 Ya it's possible, I'm singing four hours a day, so probably shouldn't spend time on this new technique till after the performances. I found this acoustic version, and it sounds essentially how I'm sounding, so if I work on this placement and don't push as much/control the air pressure I'm heading forward on the right track it seems. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEJwLU8Rtyc Doesn't sound the best because the voice seems too loud, but a {censored}ty mixer (kinda like how bad I am...) gave me hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted March 28, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 28, 2011 Hey MephistoE, can you post a clip of YOUR operatic singing? I'm curious to hear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MephistoE Posted March 28, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 If you know how I can record via a webcam mic at volume without it overloading. At one percent sounds like it's gonna blow!lol. Wish performances were allowed to be recorded, then I could just record via the mixer for you this weekend. Now don't get me wrong I'm no pavarotti and still learning but good enough to perform at the college levelcompetitively. Il l see what I can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 You must be loud, man!! 1% web cam! Can you just stand outside the room or something? lol Then it may record ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chester_Hoss Posted March 29, 2011 Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 I am so lazy, I don't want to have to realise I suck at singing rock and hard and loud songs and would have to start ALL over again and somehow learn a different way of singing to do it...*groan* It doesnt come from learning it comes from the violence inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MephistoE Posted March 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 Hah, I have a very big voice... & a {censored}ty webcam . I tried compression after and while recording, and it stops the redline, but it makes it sound... stupid because I'm sure I'm not doing it well & I have to compress it so much. I'll get a recording of me this weekend somehow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted March 30, 2011 Members Share Posted March 30, 2011 Ok dude...sorry it took me so long, been really busy. So I was screwing around in my studio tonight and came up with this...basically just a pentatonic run with the "meh" vowel that turns into "may" on the top note. My voice is thrashed right now, but maybe this will help with the rockish resonance thing. I tried for about an hour to do this with a super high larynx, but I can't do it anymore,...even trying to on purpose, lol. Anyways, these are two extremes, the first one being almost dopey and shouty sounding, with little resonance. The second one is super twangy...like I said these are two extremes, I don't sing like this...haha. Also, just for examples sake, I used absolutely no compression so you can hear the difference. The first one is shouty, belty, and kinda wavers on and off pitch on the top note. The second one is all natural compression, that lift up/pull back thing I was talking about, basically placing the note further back in your head, "covering" and adding the *ping* to make it sound like a belt but smoother. Like I said, these aren't the best examples, but I hope it helps in some way Example A - No *ping* and shouty http://picosong.com/VsS/ Example B - Super twang http://picosong.com/VsQ/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I am SO listening to this when I get my music room back on Monday!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I am SO listening to this when I get my music room back on Monday!!! You gotta listen to my video too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 100jamesX Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Another approach I would like to add to every1s excellent suggestions Try! As a comedian would do to mimic/impersonate some1's voice. They would study a persons speaking voice tremendously .. Studying how that person's speaking voice sounds in different factors like angry,sad, happy etc.. And apply that type of study to your favorite singers that you like. From high to low notes. Imagine in your mind what that singer sounds like and produce those same sounds to the best of your ability. Please post some clips of your singing. I'm sure we all would love to help out as best as we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 You gotta listen to my video too! I will man, I will! Mark my words right here! *scribbling all over the screen* Hey James, imitation of other singers only gets you so far I'm afraid...I spent the first 15+ years of my singing life trying to sound like other people, and sometimes I got there and other times I didn't...but there are always certain singers I just cannot GET...it upsets me greatly. See this song here? I want THIS... [video=youtube;Tl-zc8IG3XQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl-zc8IG3XQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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