Members Thunderbroom Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 This is pretty interesting to me. I remember during the election about how Kerry was touted as intellectually superior to Bush. His grades at Yale don't reflect that. Yale grades portray Kerry as a lackluster studentHis 4-year average on par with Bush'sBy Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | June 7, 2005 WASHINGTON -- During last year's presidential campaign, John F. Kerry was the candidate often portrayed as intellectual and complex, while George W. Bush was the populist who mangled his sentences. But newly released records show that Bush and Kerry had a virtually identical grade average at Yale University four decades ago. In 1999, The New Yorker published a transcript indicating that Bush had received a cumulative score of 77 for his first three years at Yale and a roughly similar average under a non-numerical rating system during his senior year. Kerry, who graduated two years before Bush, got a cumulative 76 for his four years, according to a transcript that Kerry sent to the Navy when he was applying for officer training school. He received four D's in his freshman year out of 10 courses, but improved his average in later years. The grade transcript, which Kerry has always declined to release, was included in his Navy record. During the campaign the Globe sought Kerry's naval records, but he refused to waive privacy restrictions for the full file. Late last month, Kerry gave the Navy permission to send the documents to the Globe. Kerry appeared to be responding to critics who suspected that there might be damaging information in the file about his activities in Vietnam. The military and medical records, however, appear identical to what Kerry has already released. This marks the first time Kerry's grades have been publicly reported. The transcript shows that Kerry's freshman-year average was 71. He scored a 61 in geology, a 63 and 68 in two history classes, and a 69 in political science. His top score was a 79, in another political science course. Another of his strongest efforts, a 77, came in French class. Under Yale's grading system in effect at the time, grades between 90 and 100 equaled an A, 80-89 a B, 70-79 a C, 60 to 69 a D, and anything below that was a failing grade. In addition to Kerry's four D's in his freshman year, he received one D in his sophomore year. He did not fail any courses. ''I always told my Dad that D stood for distinction," Kerry said yesterday in a written response to questions, noting that he has previously acknowledged that he spent a lot of time learning to fly instead of focusing on his studies. Kerry's weak grades came despite years of education at some of the world's most elite prep schools, ranging from Fessenden School in Massachusetts to St. Paul's School in New Hampshire. It is noteworthy, however, that Kerry received a high honor at Yale despite his mediocre grades: He was chosen to deliver his senior class oration, a testament to his reputation as a public speaker. He delivered a speech questioning the wisdom of the Vietnam War, in which he would soon see combat. Kerry gradually improved his grades, averaging 81 in his senior year. His highest single grade was an 89, for a political science class in his senior year. Despite his slow start, he went on to be a top student at Naval Candidate School, command a patrol boat in Vietnam, graduate from law school, and become a prosecutor, lieutenant governor, US senator, and presidential candidate. In his Navy application, Kerry made clear that he spent much of his college time on extracurricular activities, including the Yale Political Union, the Debating Association, soccer, hockey, fencing, and membership in the elite Skull and Bones Society. Asked to describe nonschool training that qualified him for the Navy, Kerry wrote: ''A great deal of sailing -- ocean and otherwise, including some navigation. Scuba diving. Rifle. Beginning of life saving." He said his special interests were ''filming," writing, and politics, noting that the latter subject occupied 15 hours per week. Gaddis Smith, a retired Yale history professor who taught both Kerry and Bush, said in a telephone interview that he vividly remembers Kerry as a student during the 1964-1965 school year, when Kerry would have been a junior. However, Smith said he doesn't have a specific memory about Bush. Based on what Smith recalls teaching that year, Kerry scored a 71 and 79 in two of Smith's courses. When Smith was told those scores, he responded: ''Uh, oh. I thought he was good student. Those aren't very good grades." To put the grades in perspective, Smith said that he had a well-earned reputation for being tough, and noted that such grades would probably be about 10 points higher in a similar class today because of the impact of what he called ''grade inflation." Bush went to Yale from 1964 to 1968; his highest grades were 88s in anthropology, history, and philosophy, according to The New Yorker article. He received one D in his four years, a 69 in astronomy. Bush has said he was a C student. Like Kerry, Bush reportedly suffered through a difficult freshman year and then pulled his grades up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 The Dudge Report is such a tabloid. Why do you read that rubbish? This proves my theory, they're equally worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B-Bottom Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 I was just reading about this. I'm sure this will spark some debate here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted June 7, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by burdizzos This proves my theory, they're equally worthless. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beam Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Hmm. I think someone's college transcripts are a good gauge of....how they did in college. Beyond that I'm not too sure what they mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cthulhu0 Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 its not the grades in college as much as the amount of cocaine and booze he blew thru his system before he "found jesus". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 You left out the best part: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beam Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by burdizzos You left out the best part: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B-Bottom Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by burdizzos [bThis proves my theory, they're equally worthless. To play devils advocate here, couldn't one make the point that Einstein failed math? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Bush had received a cumulative score of 77 for his first three years at Yale and a roughly similar average under a non-numerical rating system during his senior year. Kerry, who graduated two years before Bush, got a cumulative 76 for his four years, according to a transcript. So, Bush is exactly 1 smarter than Kerry. Kerry's freshman-year average was 71. Another of his strongest efforts, a 77, came in French class. ....to many jokes...overload........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by beam Hmm.I think someone's college transcripts are a good gauge of....how they did in college. Beyond that I'm not too sure what they mean. You're right, but his grades coupled with the fact that he kept them buried until after the election speaks to his character. They're both {censored}heads, I don't need documentation to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by B-Bottom To play devils advocate here, couldn't one make the point that Einstein failed math? Einstein could pronounce "nuclear". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beam Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by burdizzos You're right, but his grades coupled with the fact that he kept them buried until after the election speaks to his character. If Kerry actually made the point about Bush's college performance, but kind of left his own out..then yea, that's stupid. If it was just the media picking and choosing what was said, then...wait...what am I saying, the American news media picking and choosing what they say to make one person look better than another. That just does NOT happen... Kerry was never out-spoken about his college performance, that's for sure. Why attract negative attention if you don't have to? I can see where it's kind of {censored}ty to let mud be tossed at Bush's record on that, and keep quiet about your own...but all people care about is the bad things they hear about a candidate, so it was probably politically smart to not invite criticisim. I blame lug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by beam Kerry actually made the point about Bush's college performance I blame lug. What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by beam so it was probably politically smart to not invite criticisim. Nice spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beam Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by lug What do you mean? Don't play silly buggers, you know what you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_big_geez Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 "Good Heavens, Lovie! He's a Yale man..." [/Thurston Howell III] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by beam bugger you No need to get hostile, beam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beam Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by burdizzos Nice spin. I'm not saying it was right. {censored}, I don't think things like that really matter when it comes to picking a president. "He did better than him in college.." Who gives a {censored}. That's my personal feeling though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beam Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by lug No need to get hostile, beam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members src053 Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by burdizzos This proves my theory, they're equally worthless. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by beam I'm not saying it was right. {censored}, I don't think things like that really matter when it comes to picking a president. "He did better than him in college.." Who gives a {censored}. That's my personal feeling though. I agree with you. I'd rather have a president who went to work right out of high school. They are both worthless old money hacks and if there were no other choices, I wouldn't have voted at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beam Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by burdizzos I agree with you. I'd rather have a president who went to work right out of high school.They are both worthless old money hacks and if there were no other choices, I wouldn't have voted at all. College or work, as long as they did indeed do something. Hey, even if they were both equally worthless, I'd still prefer a president that can speak in complete sentances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassplayer7770 Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by burdizzos They are both worthless old money hacks and if there were no other choices, I wouldn't have voted at all. Where's that NOTA (none of the above) button? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beam Posted June 7, 2005 Members Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by bassplayer7770 Where's that NOTA (none of the above) button? Badnarik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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