Members REMUS Posted January 21, 2007 Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 Does each type of power tube have different tone charecteristics? Could someone give me a brief description of each type (6550, kt66, kt88...etc) or link me to a guide. Basically if anyone has read my other threads, i'm modding two jcm800's one for highs and one for lows and I want the best possible tube set up for each application. I've gotten sick and tired getting outbid on Fender MIJ and MIA p & j's, so that money is going on amps instead. So which are the best pre-amp tubes for highs and the best for lows? Slightly OT: It has become apparent in my research that the jcm800 handles highs and mids *very* well, but lacks the bottem end... are there any tube amps that specifically do this well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jannda Posted January 21, 2007 Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 Check out eurotubes or give bob a call tommorrow he knows tubes.Do a search for eurotube . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members REMUS Posted January 21, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 Ace! That's exactly what I was hoping for Nice one Jannda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pickinatit Posted January 21, 2007 Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&952819254&openusid&zzJman&4&5 Try this link. I think these guys are more h-fi / stereo afficionados, but they it's a pretty comprehensive over-view of their opinion regarding tone of BOTH different brands & different types of tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretless Posted January 21, 2007 Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 the KT's a British version of American types , or the other way around Good old NOS tubes are usually better made and longer lasting but there are some pretty good tubes still being made . You would probably like Mullard , Philips , RCA ,GE . etc. And there are many others that sound good from many different countries . The NOS Military tubes were made to last and can last many many years and give consistent/dependable performance with very little maintenance. Different tubes , even tubes of the same kind can sound different . I recommend you get a good Power tube , NOS is always recommended and may out live you . But there are some good ones being made . If I needed a cheaper 6550 I would probably purchase Svetlana or Winged C http://www.thetubestore.com/6550types.html the problem is tube swapping "rolling" can be a serious addiction and big $ so be careful and think twice before throwing down $125 for a Mullard 12ax7 it's also very difficult to purchase authentic versions of the tubes you may want . Many probably 3/4 and most new tubes have been Branded "stamped" re-stamped etc. so it can be tough to know what the tube really is and where and when it was made . Good Luck there I use a V4BH and use a quad of Military type 6l6's (7581's) but has more output and is a bit on the cleaner side with very solid bottom and clear tone. So this 100 watter can really putout . http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6l6.html I would recommend you get a truck load of tubes , preamp tubes are fairly cheap , until you get into NOS , so get as many different brands as you can and try them all in the 1st and 2nd spots of the pre , you will hear subtle differences . I do recommend you hunt for some Mullards , being the tube freak and all Don't worry about spending a crap load on them , if from a respectable tube seller , then your chance of getting a solid , authentic NOS tube is good , and will last many years , did I say that already let me say this , far to many new Tubes Suck or is it blow ? and may last a few months . I am aware of a new 12ax7 made in China that everyone uses , Shuguang http://www.vintagelectron.com/ have been making tubes for many years now , and are pretty good at it . I like this tube too , use it in my Demeter pre ,huge solid yet bouncy bottom and shimmering chimey top:p for $5 you can't go wrong Other guys regularly restamp this one too and charge like $35 for it Also Mullard just reissued a EL34 that is getting good reviews , so hopefully they ri a 12ax7 and some other goodies .http://www.thetubestore.com/mullardel34.html I used a JCM800 for a few years , Nothing has ever sounded like that amp , Just beautiful , what I didn't like about it was it got a wee mushy when cranked , this is what I hear in all Marshall amps , nothing wrong with it in fact it's magical , just listen to Hendrix , especially woodstock, but I prefer the fatter bottom that to me seems more solid with a Ampeg . My current V4BH is the best of both words solid fat bottom and chunky grind . And if you want a Brick wall then SVT all the way . I don't like EL34's all the much and their tone is all over the map , so the Mullard ri's are looking good there too . I did have a Hiwatt DR103 with el34's, these amps are brighter and clean , not bad at all though . A lot of the amps tone also comes from the other parts , transformers , caps , etc. Good Luck on your hunt ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretless Posted January 21, 2007 Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 ha ha , that is the longest sentence ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members REMUS Posted January 21, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 Brilliant fretless, just brilliant Might PM you a bit later on in the year for some advice if thats ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretless Posted January 21, 2007 Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 sure , let me just say it now though , Mullard , JAN Philips , RCA , GE . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jannda Posted January 21, 2007 Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 We needed another tube thread so I brought this one back from last night Ha Ha .seriously check out bobb at eurotube all he sells is JJ's but a lot of rebranded tubes are JJ's and he sells them for a lot less then others because he is there importer and if you talk to him and tell him excactly what you wany he will set you up with the tube that fits. And at least for me he's local about 10 miles away.And a really nice guy when I bought my laney it needed to be retubed so I bought some tubes I don't remember which brand but they worked for about an hour and one of them melted literaly melted a hole right through the side of the tube, and someone recomended eurotube so I gave bob a call on a sunday no less and he goes where are you at and I said N. portland and he gave me his address and said come over . got over there with my ampzand showed him what happend and he goes well now lets see whats going on, so to make a long story even longer he checked the whole amp out and found a bad resistor that caused the tube to melt and replaced it sold me a complete retube pre and power and acually when we were selecting tubes he let me try three different sets of preamp tubes and four different power sets to see which I liked best and the rebiased my amp and bought back my three remaining old tubes which turned out to be remarked JJ's and were sold as a matched set but weren't. and the charged me for the tubes only so I go four power tubes four preamp tubes rebias clean and fix amp (replace bad resistor) for 65.00 not bad. Thats what I call customer service and I'm not an isolated case I've talked to others who have had the same experience. wish everyone was like that. DAVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members REMUS Posted January 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 Sounds like a really tube obsessed... nice guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassplayer7770 Posted April 18, 2007 Members Share Posted April 18, 2007 Woah! Eurotubes has a Full Retube Kit specifically for Traynor YBA-200 amps! The description sounds good too. Kick ass! Description: Add a little thunder to your YBA200. A matched quad of the JJ KT88's for power, two ECC83S's to replace the 12AX7's and a current balanced ECC82 to replace the 12AU7 which is the phase inverter. These will get you a deeper and tighter low end and a very warm overall tone with a lot of punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretless Posted April 18, 2007 Members Share Posted April 18, 2007 I'm back on the Marshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members James Hart Posted April 18, 2007 Members Share Posted April 18, 2007 seriously check out bobb at eurotube all he sells is JJ's but a lot of rebranded tubes are JJ's and he sells them for a lot less then others because he is there importer and if you talk to him and tell him excactly what you wany he will set you up with the tube that fits. Bob will ALWAYS recommend & sell you JJ tubes because he is a JJ importer. I buy my tubes from www.tubedepot.com Christian is a straight up guy that knows amps and tubes... let him know your application and he will help you pick from NOS to used to new production to suit your needs and budget. IMO the reissue Tung-Sol are top of the game for KT88/6550 and for 12AX7 http://www.tubedepot.com/tungsol.html My Sovtek KT88 are the same tubes as the current Tung Sol 6550 (though the current Sovtek KT88 are not the same)... if I need to replace any or if I pick up another head needing a KT88/6550 that is what I'll buy. I currently have some JAN Phillip, EHX and JJ 12AX7 in my head.... I'm thinking about grabbing a set of 5 Tung Sols to replace them with. They sound good in the guitar and bass gear that I've heard with them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted April 18, 2007 Moderators Share Posted April 18, 2007 Slightly OT: It has become apparent in my research that the jcm800 handles highs and mids *very* well, but lacks the bottem end... are there any tube amps that specifically do this well? Fender. Marshall's intentionally cut the lows in the signal path by using a different value input coupling cap. (This keeps the overdrive tight and focused in the midrange.) Replace that one cap and you restore all of the missing low end. Warning, the following is an over-generalization: The tubes are primarily responsible for the gain structures, the caps and resistors are primarily responsible for tone. This reminds me, I need to post some pictures of the tube amps I've built... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassplayer7770 Posted April 18, 2007 Members Share Posted April 18, 2007 Bob will ALWAYS recommend & sell you JJ tubes because he is a JJ importer. Right, but I can appreciate that he went through the trouble of comparing the JJ tubes to others, and he has quite a bit of information available on his website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 18, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 Warning, the following is an over-generalization: The tubes are primarily responsible for the gain structures, the caps and resistors are primarily responsible for tone. And people can talk themsleves into "hearing" whatever they want to hear. It's very difficult to persuade yourself to realize those $125 NOS 12ax7's aren't all they're cracked up to be once you've plunked the hefty cash down on them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members James Hart Posted April 18, 2007 Members Share Posted April 18, 2007 Right, but I can appreciate that he went through the trouble of comparing the JJ tubes to others, and he has quite a bit of information available on his website. and he recommended another brand for some applications? My Honda salesman relative is always comparing his stuff to Toyota and Saturn..... but at the end of the day it's a Honda that shines in his eyes. I've no doubt Bob is a great guy, and yes I read his site over a few times... but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members James Hart Posted April 18, 2007 Members Share Posted April 18, 2007 And people can talk themsleves into "hearing" whatever they want to hear. like strings and such... the tubes are a slight flavor to the overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassplayer7770 Posted April 18, 2007 Members Share Posted April 18, 2007 My Honda salesman relative is always comparing his stuff to Toyota and Saturn..... but at the end of the day it's a Honda that shines in his eyes. When he's right, he's right. On a side note, I do appreciate your suggestion as well. May have to consider the Tung-Sol as well. I've only bought tubes once, and I ordered from Tube Depot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 18, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 A few months ago I called SLM/Loud about my SVT. They referred me to their warranty shop, LS Electronics, and I spoke with the service manager, Tom. We had a chat, and during it he mentioned how difficult it is to get good tubes now. From what he's learned, the tubes coming out of Russia are getting worse by the day, and there's a lot of pressure from the Russian mafia on the factories...they're trying to take them over, in effect. He didn't paint a very rosey picture of the future there, and said to be very careful of what you buy. He also said it's almost certain that all the tubes from Russia are out of one factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted April 18, 2007 Moderators Share Posted April 18, 2007 And people can talk themsleves into "hearing" whatever they want to hear. It's very difficult to persuade yourself to realize those $125 NOS 12ax7's aren't all they're cracked up to be once you've plunked the hefty cash down on them... Agreed. A bad tube is a bad tube and it will immediately identify itself as such on first power up. If you a dealing with differences between good tubes, they exist, but they are not really "tonal" differences. Again, an overgeneralization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted April 18, 2007 Moderators Share Posted April 18, 2007 A few months ago I called SLM/Loud about my SVT. They referred me to their warranty shop, LS Electronics, and I spoke with the service manager, Tom. We had a chat, and during it he mentioned how difficult it is to get good tubes now. From what he's learned, the tubes coming out of Russia are getting worse by the day, and there's a lot of pressure from the Russian mafia on the factories...they're trying to take them over, in effect. He didn't paint a very rosey picture of the future there, and said to be very careful of what you buy. He also said it's almost certain that all the tubes from Russia are out of one factory. There are fewer and fewer places in the world where tubes can be manufacturered at low cost due to environmental concerns. Right now that is Russia and China. The quality of tubes coming from these plants is so low that on a bad day you can almost count on throwing out half of the new tubes you buy. If you are making the amp or installing the tubes yourself, this is not a huge deal, but for a production amp, it is hard to QC every tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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