Members burdizzos Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 I hope that guy really did have the right equipment. Don't bank on it. He would need to measure voltage and current on the speaker cable with a constant input. In order for the data to be valid, he would also have to do various data points at different frequencies. Furthermore, he would need to have the output signal graphed on a datalogging computer to determine signal distortion for the given rating. The only people who have the right equipment for that sort of thing are designers/manufacturers and companies whose purpose in life is to measure power and accurately determine consumption. I've used equipment that could be used to determine an amp's output power, but it is insanely expensive for a guitar store owner to just have lying around. However, it is probable that he has a couple of meters laying around so he could have very easily checked incoming current to the amp while playing. Hell, he could have even checked the current going to the speaker cab while simultaneously measuring speaker line voltage, but that still doesn't tell you {censored} about the amp's real power output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Don't bank on it. He would need to measure voltage and current on the speaker cable with a constant input. In order for the data to be valid, he would also have to do various data points at different frequencies. Furthermore, he would need to have the output signal graphed on a datalogging computer to determine signal distortion for the given rating.The only people who have the right equipment for that sort of thing are designers/manufacturers and companies whose purpose in life is to measure power and accurately determine consumption. I've used equipment that could be used to determine an amp's output power, but it is insanely expensive for a guitar store owner to just have lying around.However, it is probable that he has a couple of meters laying around so he could have very easily checked incoming current to the amp while playing. Hell, he could have even checked the current going to the speaker cab while simultaneously measuring speaker line voltage, but that still doesn't tell you {censored} about the amp's real power output. Sounds about right - and that's coming from over 20 years experience in electricity and electronics... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marthoyink Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 You guys have helped me out a lot actually. I really appreciate it too. I'm not exactly a strong guy so getting a Kustom would require me to gain lots of muscle mass which isn't a bad thing, but, I am definetly gonna go to my local music stores to check out what they have. One thing that I won't do is buy a used amp!!!! I don't like buying used things because of reliability issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Sounds about right - and that's coming from over 20 years experience in electricity and electronics... - georgestrings Add mine to that and you've got a total of 35 years of experience in electricity and electronics. It's entirely possible that I'm selling the guy short and he is a custom tube amp builder who has all of that sort of equipment. It's just very unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Smokinfiddler Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Add mine to that and you've got a total of 35 years of experience in electricity and electronics. It's entirely possible that I'm selling the guy short and he is a custom tube amp builder who has all of that sort of equipment. It's just very unlikely. Well I have zero experience but the guy that tested the amp has more than both you and George put together Not to mention He builds Custom Heads Mixer boards and has installed sound systems in thousands of churches across the Nation. in his line of work this kind of testing equipment is a requirement for him to properly build equipment to the customers specifications So I would say yes he does have the proper equipment to tell me how much wattage this amp is putting out And I dont apreciate your surmise that I am bull{censored}ting any one:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Well I have zero experience but the guy that tested the amp has more than both you and George put together Not to mention He builds Custom Heads Mixer boards and has installed sound systems in thousands of churches across the Nation. in his line of work this kind of testing equipment is a requirement for him to properly build equipment to the customers specifications So I would say yes he does have the proper equipment to tell me how much wattage this amp is putting out And I dont apreciate your surmise that I am bull{censored}ting any one:mad: I'm sorry for insulting you, but the likelihood of someone owning the required equipment to accurately measure and amp's output is far less likely than a guitar store owner bull{censored}ting a customer who admittedly doesn't know {censored} about amps in an attempt to make a sale. Don't substitute his alleged knowledge for your own and don't take offense when I am calling somehting that smells like bull{censored} into question. It still sounds like you're peddling BS, but I really don't care to get into a debate that serves no purpose. I'm sure these amps are loud and sound fantastic. I'll never buy one so it really doesn't matter to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Smokinfiddler Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 I'm sorry for insulting you, but the likelihood of someone owning the required equipment to accurately measure and amp's output is far less likely than a guitar store owner bull{censored}ting a customer who admittedly doesn't know {censored} about amps in an attempt to make a sale. Don't substitute his alleged knowledge for your own and don't take offense when I am calling somehting that smells like bull{censored} into question. It still sounds like you're peddling BS, but I really don't care to get into a debate that serves no purpose. I'm sure these amps are loud and sound fantastic. I'll never buy one so it really doesn't matter to me. you apologize for insulting me then you insult me again by sating you think I am peddling BS Why bother Apologizing in the first place when you turn right around and make the exact same insult:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Could it be that it wasn't an apology at all? I am sorry that you are offended by what I've said. I can sympathize with how you feel and I do regret that what I've said makes you feel that way. However, I do not regret saying it. It needed to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldivor Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 However, I do not regret saying it. It needed to be said. +1 Just by thinking it over from what experience I have with amps, it'd be a big ordeal to measure the out put of an amp. You'd need some equipment, more then just a meter thingy. I'm not saying that he's lying but with the info you provided it seems like he calculated it and not measured it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Also, stating that you have zero knowledge or eperience and then saying, "in his line of work this kind of testing equipment is a requirement for him to properly build equipment to the customers specifications" just makes you seem like you're trying to prop up your faith in the guy. Maybe he fed you a line of {censored}, maybe he honestly does have all of the required equipment to effectively determine the power output. My point is that it is far more probable that a guitar store tech will use his knowledge to bull{censored} a customer than it is that he actually did the testing. And WTF are "Custom Heads Mixer boards"? Thousands of Churches, eh? Thousands, wow that's a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 2manband Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 So, to get back on topic - as I understand it the verdict on these things is: heavy, loud (maybe all 600W or maybe not), but somewhat sterile sounding. $400 isn't a bad price for an approximately 600W power amp and eminence loaded speaker cab - maybe running a preamp into one of these things would give a little more character. Is there an FX loop that I could run into the return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 2manband Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Also, after being on here for about a year and a half, I've finally decided to have an avatar. Behold my mullet family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hamer-Bass-Head Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 Don't bank on it. He would need to measure voltage and current on the speaker cable with a constant input. In order for the data to be valid, he would also have to do various data points at different frequencies. Furthermore, he would need to have the output signal graphed on a datalogging computer to determine signal distortion for the given rating.The only people who have the right equipment for that sort of thing are designers/manufacturers and companies whose purpose in life is to measure power and accurately determine consumption. I've used equipment that could be used to determine an amp's output power, but it is insanely expensive for a guitar store owner to just have lying around.However, it is probable that he has a couple of meters laying around so he could have very easily checked incoming current to the amp while playing. Hell, he could have even checked the current going to the speaker cab while simultaneously measuring speaker line voltage, but that still doesn't tell you {censored} about the amp's real power output. that's all well and god but it does'nt take into account what portion of that is given off as heat, measuring the input voltage and current still doesn't tell you anything about the output wattage. An extreme example would be measuring the a/c input on a svt as compared to a stewart or peavey dpc, I guarantee the results don't correlate to the output power of these devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Smokinfiddler Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 I dont feel that I have to explain anything to anyone but just to set things strait this is just not a "guitar store" as BUrdidoknowitall surmisesthe Guy also OWNS Warrior Guitar Manufacturing company in Rossville Georgia Where he builds Custom guitars and Basses that can cost up into the range of 50K you want a phone number to call and see for your self? keep running your trap misterfokinknowitall:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 82Daion Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 I dont feel that I have to explain anything to anyone but just to set things strait this is just not a "guitar store" as BUrdidoknowitall surmises I don't think that Burdizzos was referring to your amp guru specifically. the Guy also OWNS Warrior Guitar Manufacturing company in Rossville Georgia Where he builds Custom guitars and Basses that can cost up into the range of 50K Woot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Smokinfiddler Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 I don't think that Burdizzos was referring to your amp guru specifically. Woot. Spesifically that is exactly who he was talking about and telling everyone on the forum that I am a BS artist which IMO is a slanderous remark that I dont take very Kindly to in the least:mad: I have no reason for making a false statement especially something as insignificant as the subject at hand. what I dont apreciate is Burdizzos insulting comments which is basically calling me a liar and It highly urinates me Ya I said 50KWarrior Insturments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 So it's gone from a tech at a local shop, to an amp genius who has done thousands of church installations and built Custom Heads Mixer boards to Mr. J. Dran Warrior himself. You admit that you do not know anything about what you are discussing here, yet you somehow know that this guy isn't bull{censored}ting you. You change the guy's qualifications every time the story is questioned and say that I'm being insulting by calling it bull{censored}. Personally, if Bill Gates admitted to me that OSX was actually better than Vista, I wouldn't tell people that "this IT guy that I know" told me... I don't care enough to call the guy, I'm not that petty, but if it will make you feel better, give your buddy a call and tell him that I'm calling. Then PM me his direct line so I can call and chat with him. As I've said all along, it is entirely possible that the guy has the proper equipment for performing such a test, it's just very unlikely. Especially when you first refer to him as a "tech at a local shop". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 that's all well and god but it does'nt take into account what portion of that is given off as heat, measuring the input voltage and current still doesn't tell you anything about the output wattage. An extreme example would be measuring the a/c input on a svt as compared to a stewart or peavey dpc, I guarantee the results don't correlate to the output power of these devices. Yeah, that's why I said "He would need to measure voltage and current on the speaker cable with a constant input." My guess in the initial post that kicked off this stupidity was that the guy just tonged the power cord and did a P=IE calculation and said, "yep, this amp is consuming 600 watts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bleepo Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 A 50k Warrior? Thats a steal! I own a $100,000 ritter! http://www.ritter-royals.com/instruments-available.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rippin' Robin Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 My guess in the initial post that kicked off this stupidity was that the guy just tonged the power cord and did a P=IE calculation and said, "yep, this amp is consuming 600 watts." I've heard of people tonguing 9-volt batteries to check the power, but this guy must be really badass if he tongued the power cord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 what I dont apreciate is Burdizzos insulting comments which is basically calling me a liar and It highly urinates me Better cut it out guys, you don't want him to be "highly urinated". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnny6644 Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 Can't we all just get along? (Cue billy clubs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Smokinfiddler Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 Can't we all just get along?(Cue billy clubs) ya we sure could if this sonofabitch would quit insulting me in a publick forum right now he is doing a real good job of being a Troll in this thread I dont understand why this guys finite mind cannot comprehend the concept that the guy I am referring to owns multiple businesses that are music and sound related.it is not really that hard to figure out unless you are a total idiot. I am done with this thread Have a great day every one:wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 I've been called the following things in this thread: BUrdidoknowitallmisterfokinknowitalsonofabitchTrolltotal idot I have not once called Smokinfiddler anything, but I have implied that he might be gullible. In a PM, Smokinfiddler called me a dickhead and a prick. Then he claims to have put me on his ignore list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amoodymule Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 I got me one a coulple of months ago and it has the tone I need and plenty of volume, its worth the dollars spent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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