Moderators Kindness Posted April 3, 2007 Moderators Share Posted April 3, 2007 Yep. Why this concept is so hard for some people to get through their heads is beyond me. This is about as simple a concept as there ever was. Simple doesn't mean right. Often the simple concept ignores many variables that have more impact than it would seem at first glance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super_Donut_Man Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 Man, what an ugly old man Rosie's become. Wow that made my day, possibly even my week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 Quote:Originally Posted by Smokinfiddler Hell No!the law abiding citizens would comply with the law, that would only leave criminals with guns and the crime rate would get worse. Yep. Why this concept is so hard for some people to get through their heads is beyond me. This is about as simple a concept as there ever was.What he said... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 You certainly are MORE armed, but more doesn't mean better. I believe that any resolution of the situation using violence is the wrong approach. You obviously disagree, but that doesn't make either one of us right or wrong.If your point is you'd be able to kill me with your gun, then I'd say I come out on top every time in that fight. I'd rather be killed or injured by you than to have killed or injured you. Yeah, good luck with that... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Captain Fathead Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 Actually, it is - I'd MUCH rather live in upstate NY than in NYC... - georgestrings I'd be more inclined to own a gun if I lived in the country... Sure, the city was bad in the 1980's and early 90's, but now I feel perfectly safe wandering around most areas at 3 AM. I grew up in upstate NY, and quite frankly, I prefer it to the city. It's too loud and dirty here... However, I'm not in fear of getting mugged by some dude with a gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 He's just saying he doesn't agree with gun ownership. He's allowed to disagree with the constitution. And please, don't make liberal blanket statements. Some of us don't mind gun ownership As I posted before, I feel perfectly safe without a gun in NYC. I've never owned one. As fretless said, it's the legal/ criminal system that needs tweaking. NYC has an incredibly low murder rate for a city of its size. Why? because the law enforcement agencies do their jobs. BTW, anti-2nd Amendment types are ALWAYS liberals, and never conservatives or libertarians - just thought I'd point that out... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 However, I'm not in fear of getting mugged by some dude with a gun I'm certainly not - difference between you and me, is that I HAVE the means to defend myself - you're merely hoping you won't need it... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 Simple doesn't mean right. Often the simple concept ignores many variables that have more impact than it would seem at first glance.And many variables such as hunting, safety, etc. can be thrown around to complicate a simple concept that in this country we have the RIGHT to have guns and the only legal way to change that is a constitutional amendment. If gun control advocats can't muster the support...tough tiddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Captain Fathead Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 I'm certainly not - difference between you and me, is that I HAVE the means to defend myself - you're merely hoping you won't need it... - georgestrings Fair enough. I'm just trying to poing out that NYC (not sure about other cities) is much safer than people seem to think. I'm not hoping I don't need one. I'm looking at statistics and making a logical choice. If carrying a concealed firearm makes you feel safer, all the power to ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 Fair enough. I'm just trying to poing out that NYC (not sure about other cities) is much safer than people seem to think.. Now...It hasn't always been. There's a reason Bernie Goetz was found not guilty and became a popular hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted April 3, 2007 Moderators Share Posted April 3, 2007 And many variables such as hunting, safety, etc. can be thrown around to complicate a simple concept that in this country we have the RIGHT to have guns and the only legal way to change that is a constitutional amendment. If gun control advocats can't muster the support...tough tiddy. Absolutely. I also agree with your point that we have a pretty nice system whereby everyone has the right to a gun unless they demonstrate they can't handle the responsibility.Owning and using a gun would be the wrong choice for me personally, but that doesn't mean it's the right choice for anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Captain Fathead Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 Now...It hasn't always been. There's a reason Bernie Goetz was found not guilty and became a popular hero. 'Course. I think I said something like that in an earlier post. Although I have no idea who Bernie Goetz is... Was he the guy who killed the potential muggers? If it is, I think it happened before I was born, or very small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Undead Sycip Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 You certainly are MORE armed, but more doesn't mean better. I believe that any resolution of the situation using violence is the wrong approach. You obviously disagree, but that doesn't make either one of us right or wrong.. All this relative peace and order that we enjoy is here because there are military and police forces willing to commit violence on our behalf. Geographic boundaries, political climates and laws can all trace their roots back to killing and mayhem. Violence has a legitimate place in the world. If your point is you'd be able to kill me with your gun, then I'd say I come out on top every time in that fight. I'd rather be killed or injured by you than to have killed or injured you. You too WILL KILL given the right circumstance. Don't write it off just yet until you've stared evil in the eye. In the words of Jeff Cooper, Evil is not conquered by fleeing from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 Typical liberal tactic of twisting things to suit your purpose - you were commenting on guns in the USA, then made the comment that gun ownership was a "privilage" - then when I point out the error of your line of thought, I'm getting "angry"??? Good luck with that... - georgestrings The only thing typical is georgestrings replying with "typical liberal..." (BTW, I don't want to take your guns from you. You can relax now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 The only thing typical is georgestrings replying with "typical liberal..." (BTW, I don't want to take your guns from you. You can relax now.) No, use of that tactic by libs is pretty typical - but hey, whatever you say... As for not wanting to take my guns - that's a good thing, 'cause I'm not giving them up, regardless of the circumstances... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 (BTW, I don't want to take your guns from you. You can relax now.)Careful, with gun sentiments like that, you are in danger of being kicked out of the Wine and Cheese of the Month club AND have you're membership in the G. W. Bush Hate Club revoked!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted April 3, 2007 Moderators Share Posted April 3, 2007 .You too WILL KILL given the right circumstance. Don't write it off just yet until you've stared evil in the eye. In the words of Jeff Cooper, Evil is not conquered by fleeing from it. Given the right circumstances, true. I will not find myself in those circumstances. Many thanks to those that do. I have stared down the barrel of a loaded gun on more than one occasion. I have been shot at while holding a gun myself (I was deer hunting and found myself in the middle of a field growing things I was not supposed to see). I have never used a weapon against another person and I have never once thought that using a weapon against another human would have improved my life. Having faced the circumstance in my life, I can state without any question, I would rather be killed than kill. I no longer will pick up a gun for sport or otherwise. It is not the right choice for me. The world needs more kindness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 Fair enough. I'm just trying to poing out that NYC (not sure about other cities) is much safer than people seem to think. I'm not hoping I don't need one. I'm looking at statistics and making a logical choice. If carrying a concealed firearm makes you feel safer, all the power to ya. That's cool - and I agree that NYC isn't as dangerous as it's commonly thought of - and largely in part due to the policies of the Guiliani Admin... I would like to point out as someone who's been the the big apple MANY times, and lived a majority of my life in upstate NY - there's no comparison between the 2 in safe living, and quality of life... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 I can state without any question, I would rather be killed than kill. Some pedophile is about to murder your daughter and the only way you can stop him is to shoot him. Unlikely? yes. But never say never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 Careful, with gun sentiments like that, you are in danger of being kicked out of the Wine and Cheese of the Month club AND have you're membership in the G. W. Bush Hate Club revoked!!!! Oh, man - that WOULD be a tragedy in his life - hahahah!!!! - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Captain Fathead Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 That's cool - and I agree that NYC isn't as dangerous as it's commonly thought of - and largely in part due to the policies of the Guiliani Admin... I would like to point out as someone who's been the the big apple MANY times, and lived a majority of my life in upstate NY - there's no comparison between the 2 in safe living, and quality of life... - georgestrings I grew up in Clinton... I know upstate NY pretty well. It's a beautiful area, IMO. The city's cool for a young guy like me, but I'd consider moving back upsate when I get older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 I've never been shot at outside of my job in the Military. I would go out and say that a good 9 out of 10 of us Americans will never be shot at. Your impression of Americans has been colored by generalizations and false portrayals by Hollywood and other fantasy information sources (like NBC).The issue of gun control is not about guns. it is the encroachment of government into people's lives. It's a difficult concept to grasp for someone on the outside looking in and is used to a highly regulated life.Who was the big English Parliamentarian who wanted to limit top speed on motorcycles because folks were dying in high speed crashes? That sort of thing is outrageous IMO but it makes perfect sense to folks from that part of the world. Isn't there a move to regulate knives in England now? What about the sword ban in Scotland? Do you see what happens once you give government an inch? They expand their control incrementally. But it's only about government encroachment from the perspective of gun supporters. I think for many it's an issue of public safety. The US has speed limits. It bans certain types of knives, like switchblades, machetes and throwing stars. Do you feel that the government is encroaching in your life because you can't hold a nuclear bomb in the privacy of your home? If the gov't has nukes, why shouldn't we have them? Isn't that the intent of the 2nd? To protect us from the gov't takeover? And I agree with you about the media/entertainment. But it applies to Americans, too. We watch the same crap, play the same video games, and many of us perceive the outside world as a violent, crime-ridden world. If I watched COPS and the evening news every night, I might feel the need to get a gun to protect myself, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 I have never used a weapon against another person and I have never once thought that using a weapon against another human would have improved my life. Having faced the circumstance in my life, I can state without any question, I would rather be killed than kill.I no longer will pick up a gun for sport or otherwise. It is not the right choice for me. The world needs more kindness. I could not be more in disagreement - I have shot a burglar, and would do so again without hesitation, nor remorse... As for "kill or be killed" - I'm flinging lead, baby!!! I can respect the commitment to your ideals, but I certainly don't agree with them - good luck to you and yours with that line of thinking - I sincerely hope that you never have reason to wish you'd thought/done otherwise... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 I grew up in Clinton... I know upstate NY pretty well. It's a beautiful area, IMO. The city's cool for a young guy like me, but I'd consider moving back upsate when I get older.georgestrings, I think he just called you old! ......starts popcorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 I grew up in Clinton... I know upstate NY pretty well. It's a beautiful area, IMO. The city's cool for a young guy like me, but I'd consider moving back upsate when I get older. Wouldn't you agree that Clinton is typically much safer than Brooklyn??? - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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