Members boogiebassbill Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 Yeah...it's gittin' later for me, too...Nice wheels!thanks man....453 hp dyno on pump gas and only weighs 1500 lb....come on over and I'll take ya ah ride........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 Bonds' indictment seems quite well-deserved. Comparisons to Clinton are childish and lame, and besides, Dubya's lied far more than Clinton ever did.You're wrong but even if we assume you're right, he has not lied to a grand jury or to federal prosecutors. This is the same charge Martha Stewart was prosecuted and convicted.The entire thing is moot. Why? Because the race card will be played. The shoe hasn't dropped yet but it will. He will get off. I have faith in this American 'system'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 The entire thing is moot. Why? Because the race card will be played. The shoe hasn't dropped yet but it will. He will get off. I have faith in this American 'system'. It's been played. Steven A. Smith ranted about this for about 20 mins last night on ESPN. I cannot stand that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 It's been played. Steven A. Smith ranted about this for about 20 mins last night on ESPN. I cannot stand that guy. Heeeere we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 Heeeere we go. It didn't work in the Vick case, so I'm interested to see how this plays out. The "race" side of it, anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members collinwho Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 Nothing. I don't think he's gonna play any more anyway. He left the Giants, and I don't think anyone will offer him the kind of money he wants. If Bonds isn't playing next year, I would expect a collusion lawsuit against all 30 teams. He's shown that he still has the talent to play in the league, so if that were to happen, he would likely get a HUGE settlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 It didn't work in the Vick case, so I'm interested to see how this plays out. The "race" side of it, anyhow.That's because there is only one thing more egregious than race and that is cruelty to animals, especially canines. In this case, he WAS Lynched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pickdust Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 The reason they went after him with our money is he lied to the grand jury and EVERYONE knows it. If it is allowed without retribution than people won't think twice about lying when it is their turn. This is a (near worthless) attempt to dissuade people from that action in the future. The good side benefit is a real honest to goodness asshole (Bonds) should go down hard on this one. +1 + Imagine! Bad things happening to an asshole! There is hope after all!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 +1+Imagine! Bad things happening to an asshole! There is hope after all!!!! It will never happen, so give it up now. He's worth to much $$$$ and he is black. It just won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 If he's convicted of what, steroid use or lying under oath? If the former, then MLB has to go much, much deeper than just Bonds. The latter. Like I said, if convicted, MLB will have to punish him somehow. Could a lifetime ban be possible? I don't see why not. FWIW, Fay Vincent believes this is worse than what Pete Rose did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 And, in pro sports, "lifetime" means what....about half a season? Ask Pete Rose. Or Joe Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 Ask Pete Rose. Or Joe Jackson. Or much better, Buck Weaver... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 If Bonds isn't playing next year, I would expect a collusion lawsuit against all 30 teams. He's shown that he still has the talent to play in the league, so if that were to happen, he would likely get a HUGE settlement.Nope. Collusion doesn't work against one player.Collusion is all the teams getting together and saying "No one offer more than 5 million a year to any corner outfielder"...If 30 teams decide they don't want a clubhouse cancer, media side show, designated-hitter-who-demands-to-play-in-the-field on their team, that's not collusion, that's the market...Just like it wasn't collusion when 29 teams looked at A-Rod over the last two weeks and said "You think we're going to pay you what?!? Yeah, good luck with that, jackass"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 FWIW, Fay Vincent believes this is worse than what Pete Rose did.And Tom Lantos (at least I think it was him), said that what Yahoo did was comparable to Hitler's acts in WWII. What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 Yeah, I feel bad for the stonewall against A-Rod. Having to settle for a piddly $275M... He's the MLB version of Kobe. Great during the season, but just can't get his team over the hump when it comes playoff time (but at least Kobe performs and sets his season-high stats). Plus, both are the best in their respective leagues, and primadonnas because of such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 Yeah, I feel bad for the stonewall against A-Rod. Having to settle for a piddly $275M... Oh, and the Yanks are great for their "Since A-Rod opted out, we won't be holding any negotiations with him from this point on"...That almost lasted two weeks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members collinwho Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 Nope. Collusion doesn't work against one player. Collusion is all the teams getting together and saying "No one offer more than 5 million a year to any corner outfielder"...If 30 teams decide they don't want a clubhouse cancer, media side show, designated-hitter-who-demands-to-play-in-the-field on their team, that's not collusion, that's the market... Just like it wasn't collusion when 29 teams looked at A-Rod over the last two weeks and said "You think we're going to pay you what?!? Yeah, good luck with that, jackass"... If the owners/GMs decided to unofficially blacklist Barry Bonds, that wouldn't be collusion? Certainly, no matter what, they would claim that he is asking for more than he is worth, or that he would be a detriment to their team, but if I were Bond's agent, and I didn't get any offers for next year, even after he had the highest OBP in baseball (I didn't check this stat, but I believe this is the case) this year, I would definitely be shouting to every newspaper that would listen "They were all working in unison to keep my guy out of baseball!"EDIT TO ADD: I just reread this and I wanted to clarify, I am not trying to say that this actually is collusion, or that he would win. I don't know enough about the specifics of collusion and what it would take to win a collusion case to do that. I am simply saying that, it could appear as such at first glance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pickdust Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 It will never happen, so give it up now.He's worth to much $$$$ and he is black. It just won't happen. You're entitled to your opinion............me? ...........it appears I'm and optimist! Who knew! PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 If the owners/GMs decided to unofficially blacklist Barry Bonds, that wouldn't be collusion? Nope. As I said, collusion is working together against multiple players for a net benefit to multiple teams (particularly the net benefit to multiple teams thing). When Owners decide "these four left fielders are essentially equal, no one offer more than $3 million per year" so that they can sign all four for less than their worth (as happened with Rondell White, Reggie Sanders, et al. a few years back), that's collusion. All 30 teams deciding "{censored} Bonds" is just a decision. Even if they make it together, it's not to bring about mutual net gain. If they all decided "no one offer Bonds anything so Sabean can sign him for $5 million" that would be collusion. Certainly, no matter what, they would claim that he is asking for more than he is worth, or that he would be a detriment to their team, but if I were Bond's agent, and I didn't get any offers for next year, even after he had the highest OBP in baseball (I didn't check this stat, but I believe this is the case) this year, I would definitely be shouting to every newspaper that would listen "They were all working in unison to keep my guy out of baseball!" As I said, it wouldn't be against any rules. But he didn't have the top OPS, and technically he didn't even qualify for the leaderboard, since he didn't play enough this year. Players have no negotiated right to play the game. What they have a negotiated right to is to receive fair pay if their services are in demand. If every team says "we don't want him", then his services aren't in demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 You're entitled to your opinion............me? ...........it appears I'm and optimist!Who knew!PD They didn't get him on the initial investigations, the steroid use. How will they prove he is a liar? This issue will be easy to cloud with accusations of racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 They didn't get him on the initial investigations, the steroid use. How will they prove he is a liar?Remember, the initial investigations weren't about him at all. They were about BALCO and whether BALCO was providing steroids.These charges stem from his previous testimony in that case, and the subsequent investigations. And the magic words have now been said "positive tests". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 Remember, the initial investigations weren't about him at all. They were about BALCO and whether BALCO was providing steroids. These charges stem from his previous testimony in that case, and the subsequent investigations. And the magic words have now been said "positive tests". Did I miss something? When did he have positive tests? The only thing I remember was a book (cannot recall the title) that came out that said he was using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 Did I miss something? When did he have positive tests? The only thing I remember was a book (cannot recall the title) that came out that said he was using them. IIRC, that was part of the evidence the DOJ has come up with, and a main reason they've brought the indictment. Again, IMHO his trainer had to have rolled on him. That's why he's now free (released), and the indictment is moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 IIRC, that was part of the evidence the DOJ has come up with, and a main reason they've brought the indictment. Again, IMHO his trainer had to have rolled on him. That's why he's now free (released), and the indictment is moving forward. Sorry, I didn't hear nor read that. Just the perjury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted November 16, 2007 Members Share Posted November 16, 2007 Sorry, I didn't hear nor read that. Just the perjury. Yeah I did in some of the 3-4 hours of continuous rambling on ESPN last night, that they had evidence of positive drug tests somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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