Members Flatball Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 I often end up using good ol' duct tape to tape down mic cables and speaker wires so nobody wipes out or damages gear. It's always a pain in the ass at tear down time though and the cables get gunky. Anybody have any suggestions/better methods/products that I could use to organize the mess... without the mess? Thanks! Mr. Clean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members countrybass Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 All of our mics and instruments are wireless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackcheez Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 When I do sound for my band, all mic cables, except for the lead singer, go around the perimiter of the stage. Either around the front or the rear. When the house does sound, if I see them run direct box or mic cables across the stage I'll ask that they move them. I get dirty looks some times. BFD. I hate a stage with cables all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hunter6 Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Use really wide painters tape instead? It won't be as strong as far as holding stuff down, but it'll keep the residue off the cables and stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drummer_j Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Try gaffer's tape instead of duct tape. It holds great, is usually black so it disappears on stage and most importantly it doesn't leave sticky goop all over everything. The only downside is it is more expensive and harder to find than duct tape. Worth the effort/cost IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GearsOfWar Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Gaffer tape. More expensive, but great for anything you have to tape if it has to do with musicstuff. I have worked as a stage manager for various well known bands, some of them have a case with gaffer in it which is locked and only the stage manager or one of the roadies has the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Try gaffer's tape instead of duct tape. It holds great, is usually black so it disappears on stage and most importantly it doesn't leave sticky goop all over everything. The only downside is it is more expensive and harder to find than duct tape. Worth the effort/cost IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bryan316 Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 First of all, got pics of your typical setup? Now, I'm gonna ASSume that you're doing a typical bar cover gig. Monitors out front, and two or three mic stands. RULE NUMBER ONE! NO CABLES SHOULD BE UNDER YOUR FEET WHERE YOU PLAY! That means, run everything along the sides. Wrap around your stage. Run all your monitor speaker cables down one side then across the front. Run all your mic cables down the other side then across the front. Speaker cables behind/under the monitors, mic cables in front of the monitors. Don't cross the streams, Ray. It would be bad. NO MORE DUCT TAPE ALLOWED Velcro wrap-ties and gaffer's tape. Use velcro to "snake" your mic cables together. Same for the speaker cables. The velcro can easily be readjusted depending on the stage side, but they don't gum up your cables or the floor. If you MUST stick stuff to the floor, gaffer's tape. And don't tell me your mic cables aren't long enough to run down the side of the stage and then out front. Mic cables are designed as they are, specifically for the purpose of long runs with minimal interference. I ain't saying to go out and buy 50 foot Mogami mic cables. You can get away with decent-level mic cables. I recently made a batch of four 40-foot mic cables, by buying a big ol' batch of Neutrik ends and $0.33 per foot mic cable. Took me a beer and two TV shows to solder them all up. It's not as difficult to save money as you may think. If you can't solder, call up Bayou Cables and they'll hook you up for a very fair price. Post pics. I've got many more suggestions, but I wanna see your stage layout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackcheez Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Gaffer's tape ? It's always a pain in the ass at tear down time though and the cables get gunky. Gaffer's tape is the biggest pain in the ass of all to pull up at the end of the night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flatball Posted January 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Thanks for the suggestions. Myself and one other player have wireless units. A lot of the bars we play are smallish (under 250 people) and we usually do our own sound, which means having the board on or right beside the stage. Like Jackcheese, I always try to run wires for the mains and the monitors and the mics around the perimeter, behind everyone but it's not always possible. Also, sometimes the mains have to be located away from the stage with a traffic area in between, so I have to ensure that the wires aren't a problem for the customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GearsOfWar Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Gaffer...used in the theatre and musicbizz for a long time now...with a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 7, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Gaffer's tape ? Gaffer's tape is the biggest pain in the ass of all to pull up at the end of the night. Yes, gaffer tape. Duct tape is for amateurs. :poke: But seriously, good gaffer sticks well but removes without leaving residue (unless you leave it in place for a month or so, then you've got trouble) comes in black to disappear or a variety of colors to blend in or stand out. There are commercial cable ramps to protect cables and patrons where running underfoot is unavoidable. They are priced in line with professional commercial gear....$$$$. A simple rubber doormat can sometimes replace these if you gaffer it down securely and don't create a huge lump of cable under it. Routing cable away from traffic and performers is the way to go, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flatball Posted January 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Bryan, as usual, you have some great suggestions. I don't have pics but the setup is pretty standard as you described: Drums, keys, guitar, bass, singer. 4 mics, and usually 2 monitors. Don't know about most of you, but around here, club owners don't give you a hell of a lot of stage space so it's always pretty tight. I'll give the gaffer tape a try. I already do the velcro tie thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 7, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Also, sometimes the mains have to be located away from the stage with a traffic area in between, so I have to ensure that the wires aren't a problem for the customers. Make it a point to ask the venue PIC (person in charge) whether a cable routing is a problem for them. If you create a trip and fall problem, the lawyers will be coming after you as well as the PIC and the venue. It'll ultimately fall on the venue's shoulders, but you really don't need the stress and hassle of a lawsuit appearance, since you'll have to hire a law-dog yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flatball Posted January 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Craig, I kinda like the rubber doormat idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 7, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 And don't tell me your mic cables aren't long enough to run down the side of the stage and then out front. Mic cables are designed as they are, specifically for the purpose of long runs with minimal interference. I ain't saying to go out and buy 50 foot Mogami mic cables. You can get away with decent-level mic cables. I recently made a batch of four 40-foot mic cables, by buying a big ol' batch of Neutrik ends and $0.33 per foot mic cable. Took me a beer and two TV shows to solder them all up. It's not as difficult to save money as you may think. If you can't solder, call up Bayou Cables and they'll hook you up for a very fair price. Another source for cables and supplies is www.audiopile.net Mark's a regular and interesting contributor to the Live Sound forum and he and Liz are a pleasure to work with. He's also got excellent deals on road cases and racks, almost too good to believe, and boatload of other SR stuff. I've found that 25 or 30 feet seems to work well for mic cable. If you go longer, many times a sub-snake is the best way to handle things. You can also use sub-snakes as a 'main' snake for on-stage mixing setups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackcheez Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Also, sometimes the mains have to be located away from the stage with a traffic area in between, so I have to ensure that the wires aren't a problem for the customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 7, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Craig, I kinda like the rubber doormat idea! The larger "commercial" ones with the rug stuff on top work well and are cheap at Home Depot, etc. They also double/triple as packing protection in the trailer, and as moisture protection under ground-stacked speakers in outdoor gigs. EDIT: I should add that it's important to remember that a mat will not protect the cables, it only minimizes a trip hazard, and only when done "right". In some cases the mat with cables under might still be considered a trip hazard, so it's best to only use them on stage. The cable protection products I mentioned and jackcheez pic'd are the way to go for public 'crossings'. I know I'm being anal about this, but if you're paid to do a job, you've got a liability issue to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 7, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 33" $88 :eek: Still cheaper than the retainer plus hourly to defend a lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flatball Posted January 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Yeah, that's kinda what I had in mind for the public areas, but hojeez, they're expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 7, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Yeah, that's kinda what I had in mind for the public areas, but hojeez, they're expensive. That's relatively cheap. The one's made for outdoors that can be driven over are like $250 for that length:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bryan316 Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Bryan, as usual, you have some great suggestions. I don't have pics but the setup is pretty standard as you described: Drums, keys, guitar, bass, singer. 4 mics, and usually 2 monitors. Don't know about most of you, but around here, club owners don't give you a hell of a lot of stage space so it's always pretty tight. I'll give the gaffer tape a try. I already do the velcro tie thing. Another thing to consider, is where you put your amps. Of course, speaker cables should be as short as you can get away with. So... put your amps AT your speakers. Dunno what PA speakers you use or amps, so I'll take a wild stab and ASSume again, that you have a sub box on the floor with the midrange/high combo cab on top. If so, you should set it up so your amps are either behind your speaker towers, or IN them. I've seen a local gigging band store their amps in a rack, with a U-shaped frame that saddled the amp rack. Then they put the amps on top of the sub box, the U-frame over the amps, and the top cab on the U-frame. It got their top cabs up at ear level, and it let them use 3-foot speaker cables. NIIICE setup. Then in one of the racks he had the monitor amp. Then they just ran some very minimal 20-ft speaker cables to the monitors. This lets minimizes the runs of cables. Now the IDEAL... would be one amp powering the sub with one channel and the top with the other channel, and in the rack your crossover. Then from your PA box, you send only one mic cable to send the whole signal. I know I know, most people would prefer to keep their crossover at their PA box. If so, just corkscrew together two mic cables to run your Low/High signals to the amps. Another thing. All your stage gear's power cables should be running behind all your amps. Nothing running across the stage. Tuck em behind the drummer, or wrap in front of the drummer. But be careful where your drum mic cables are! Don't cross the streams, Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bryan316 Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Yeah, that's kinda what I had in mind for the public areas, but hojeez, they're expensive. Go hit Home Depot. Get some of that outdoor-grade carpet. Cut it into 2-3 foot wide strips, around 6 feet each. If you can find those rubber-backed floormats that are long and narrow for hallways, INVEST. They'll last and are easier to wash off and keep clean. Also consider: http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=183606-76354-29410017&lpage=none http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=119319-470-05534&lpage=none Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flatball Posted January 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Bryan, why don't you just come live here and be my stage manager? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackcheez Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 33" $88 :eek: Still cheaper than the retainer plus hourly to defend a lawsuit. I didn't even look at the price, I just posted the first one that came up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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