Moving On From Smaller Rooms that have supported you!

[Fat Bastage]

I'm sure some bands would love to have this problem. How do you say goodbye to the rooms that over the years have been somewhat loyal as your needs and opportunities change (for the better)?

 

Most of the bands I've been in have been pretty successful locally. I've been fortunate enough to play with some great musicians. Decent draw, $100+ per show... key bookings in desirable rooms. To be truthful there isn't much competition locally. The competition are mostly bad basement bands outside of two maybe three good cover groups. All of the good musicians know each other and stick together. Of course, nothing lasts forever and the good players all know each other and move in and out of bands and projects all of the time.

 

I live in a rural area in Western PA and $400-$600 is the payout for a decent band. $800 for something stellar. A group I joined about a year ago has built up a tremedous following in a short period of time. We're quickly becoming the largest draw in the area. We've also done some really smart marketing. We sought out a beer sponsorship with two local distribution companies and became friends with some local DJ's. As a result our slowly rising stock has quickly turned into a bidding war. Two venues are offering over $1200 each in return for 1st choice in 2006 bookings and all the major bar nights (New Year's, St. Patty's Day... Night before Thanksgiving). Other rooms are scampering to offer.. as much as they can (over $1000) just because of the buzz. We are officially the highest paid club band on the local scene.

 

We don't have agencies in this area of the state.... it's all DIY bookings. Driving this increase (our highest paid room a year ago was $700) is our "manager"/drummer... a real go getter type who has really worked hard on creating a name for us. I'm hardly complaining.... I am, though, a bit concerned. I just hope that this quick increase in business doesn't set us up for a fall.

 

I have played locally with several cover bands over the years and have seen many venues come and go. The venues that have survived have always taken the attitude that $XXX is what they pay... whether the room is crowded or not... no matter how good the band. Take it or leave it. They only book good bands and it's a place to be seen. There's no pressure on the band because the band provides the music and the club provides the crowd. However, the rooms offering us more $$$$, are not the "traditional" rooms. They are either new bars or off the circuit clubs trying to increase attendence. They either are so far off the beaten path or fgrequently book entertainment so bad that some of our regulars don't even want to show up. Personally I can't stand some of the rooms. We are thinking we are getting a great paying gig. The bar owner is expecting us to fill his room. The whole thing seems more like an appearance fee rather than a legitimate booking to me.

 

Some bars are deciding (after looking at the recipts) that it "just wasn't worth it" to book us. We fill the room, but they still lose money. I'm trying to convince my bandmates that this is NOT a good way to conduct business. We need to have the idea that we are there to help that club make $$$. For us to maintain our name and reputation it's our obligation that the club must benefit too. It's the only way to maintain a mutually beneficial relationship. Also some of the traditional rooms are already feeling slighted.... that we had the balls to take business elsewhere. Some owners that I know personally are quick to remind me that they were around when we needed breaks and that most of the new places will likely fail. It will make it harder if we have to come back at some point. Three rooms we were confident about last winters have shut their doors.

 

All this would be easier if we had an agency to buffer. Tom (our drummer) is too closely associated with the band. His actions look like my actions. How do you book gigs? Through an agent or independent? What are the pro's/cons. How do you tell a loyal room that the business offer is better down the road?

[squealie]

Man, those are some tough decisions.

 

My only advice is to remember your fans, and the clubs who provided them. Burn as few bridges as possible. Clubs do come and go like crazy.

 

Ultimately, it is a business decision, and your band is only worth the asses you put in the door. So those asses are your main concern. If they wont follow you to the new clubs......

[daklander]

Ya know, many times;

 

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush...

 

The grass ain't always greener...

 

I could go on.

 

Seems to me that you are in a limited area but have solid, consistent PAYING gigs, that don't rely on you providing the crowd but appreciate it when your crowd shows up. You have some opportunities to play other venues for more money but for that extra cash are expected to bring the crowd.

Does that sum it up?

 

If so, I'd stay with those solid gigs unless the new gigs are a real step up in dollars, and a huge step up in visibility, which seems is not the case.

 

Don't burn bridges is a good axiom but so is don't bite the hand that feeds you and in this case they seem to run together.

 

Why not work the regular, paying, gigs and toss in the others now and again, especially when you're slow?

 

 

Just my $0.02, take 'em for what they're worth....

[Fat Bastage]

 

Originally posted by daklander Ya know, many times; A bird in hand is worth two in the bush... The grass ain't always greener... I could go on. Seems to me that you are in a limited area but have solid, consistent PAYING gigs, that don't rely on you providing the crowd but appreciate it when your crowd shows up. You have some opportunities to play other venues for more money but for that extra cash are expected to bring the crowd. Does that sum it up? If so, I'd stay with those solid gigs unless the new gigs are a real step up in dollars, and a huge step up in visibility, which seems is not the case. Don't burn bridges is a good axiom but so is don't bite the hand that feeds you and in this case they seem to run together. Why not work the regular, paying, gigs and toss in the others now and again, especially when you're slow? Just my $0.02, take 'em for what they're worth....

 

 

We're actually looking to travel outside the region and look for gigs in other markets 2-3 hrs away(southern PA, OH, NY) just for a little diversity. We realize that we will have to start from scratch in those markets, although we're convinced with a few perfromances in key rooms we'll get offers for repeat bookings. In those markets the clubs are much larger and $1500-$1800 is not uncommon. And it will give a solid base for leavrage with the clubs in our home market. So we are looking to limit ourselves to just four or five rooms locally. Right now we have more rooms contacting us than we know what to do with. That's the problem... we don't have room in our calendar to accomodate everyone... so unfortunately, the old standbys have to fall off. Some people don't understand.... "You're dropping there to play there ?!?!?!" but it's hard to turn down rooms that are offering you double.

 

 

This whole thing came up recently when a new bar (we'll call ClubX)across town from a place (we'll call Club Y)we've played for years, opened up and offered us $1200 a night to get first stab at 2006 bookings. The owners are new to the business but have abundant cash to run the biz. At first they offered us a house band position and we refused. When they offered an extra $200 a night for the 2006 we went ahead and booked it. That meant we had to bump Club Y off the schedule. Club Y was always the lowest paying room on the rotation but we've played there because of the exposure. The fact is we wouldn't be in the position where we are now (consistent following, lots of buzz, a deal with Budweiser) if it weren't for us cutting our teeth at ClubY with alot of other great bands. So not only do we have to drop Club Y from the schedule... but we are playing across town for the competition. That's an insult. We simply can't play both rooms... how do you play one room for $1200 and his competiton for $600. Club X has been hosting live entertainment for over 15 years. The Club Y may be closed by this time next summer. We're just going to have to take the chance.

 

Clubs tend to open big around here... and when they fall unfortunately, it's fast and hard.

[riffdaddy]

I'll say a few things about this. First off, never under any circumstances should a booked gig be cancelled, even if the prospect of making more money exists. Always honor your agreements. Second, it would be wise to try to develop some sort of manner of appeasing all of these local venues that pay less money but have helped you grow your base. If possible, try getting some of them to book you on Thursday nights instead of Fridays or Saturdays. Be willing to take a little less money. It will help you maintain friendly relations with the club owners should you have the need to fill other dates down the road. Third, try as hard as possible to work all of your venues into a regular rotation. This will help you tremendously.

[THX1138]

For what its worth, clubs have varying degrees of professionalism just like bands do. Just because a club looks like it could be a terrific notch in the belt doesn't mean that it will indeed be worth the time and effort. For example, there is one club in our hometown that we will play for the first time in September. We never put much stock in it as it just didn't seem like the right fit for us, and it has never really been one of the top venues to see live music. However, the owner has been nothing but top notch in his dealings with us. He always returns calls, and seems to have his {censored} in order. By way of comparison, we're also scheduled to make our debut at another club out of town at the end of August. This venue appears to be much higher profile, and in a larger metropolitan area. The bands they normally bring in are a perfect fit with what we do, and they also regularly schedule national acts. Unfortunately, they never return calls, and their website has been down for three days now. Word through the grapevine is that they may soon (if not already) close down. And we've received no contact with the venue regarding any of this.

 

Just be careful who you deal with. Obviously, you want your band to progress. Like it or not, a band is a business, and a successful business needs to grow. Just don't crap too much on the people who helped propell you.

[Singin' Dave]

Well first of all, Congrats and kudos on your success! It takes hard work and talent to be in your position and you guys should be proud that you are progressing to the point of being in high demand as you describe.

 

The decisions you are making are business decisions and should be treated as such.

 

Part of business is $$$, another part is exposure/marketing and yet another is loyalty/relationships. Ultimately all this should sit under an umbrella of enjoying what you do....

 

Each of these "parts" has value, so it's up to you guys to decide where that value lies (i.e. future gig security and built in crowds @ $600 vs. tenuous venues, you bring the crowd for $1,200.) Is the extra dough enough of an incentive to drastically alter your gig landscape? Again, you guys need to wiegh this out.

 

All that being said, never sell yourself short! Like any business, with more demand comes changes and higher pricing. I would let you your old loyal venues know that you guys are being offered higher pay and larger venues that may better help you all achieve your goals of branching out and growing as a band. But you appreciate all they've done for you and because of that, you guys are willing to "work with them" on discounted pricing on your new pricing model (based on your new status). Rather than just blowing them off, you are giving them the chance to make an offer that is fair for all parties - taking into account those non-monetary "assets" that would make it worthwhile for you to either stay where you are at or book elsewhere. Much like a free agent who would take slightly lesser pay to stay with his favorite team, you are showing them respect and giving them the first opportunity to keep your services.

 

It'kind of like interviewing for a new job while still at your old one....which is going to help YOU get where you want to be...

[Terry Allan Hall]

 

Originally posted by daklander Ya know, many times; A bird in hand is worth two in the bush... The grass ain't always greener... I could go on. Seems to me that you are in a limited area but have solid, consistent PAYING gigs, that don't rely on you providing the crowd but appreciate it when your crowd shows up. You have some opportunities to play other venues for more money but for that extra cash are expected to bring the crowd. Does that sum it up? If so, I'd stay with those solid gigs unless the new gigs are a real step up in dollars, and a huge step up in visibility, which seems is not the case. Don't burn bridges is a good axiom but so is don't bite the hand that feeds you and in this case they seem to run together. Why not work the regular, paying, gigs and toss in the others now and again, especially when you're slow? Just my $0.02, take 'em for what they're worth....

 

 

Excellent advice!

[salislore]

My band is facing a very similar situation.

 

Funny, I'm the Drummer and I'm the one who has booked virtually all of our gigs.

 

We have been together for about a year and a half. We started playing a few small to medium size rooms, which gave us "our start". I have now been able book us into a number of medium/large to large venues. We have also signed on with an agent who is now getting us into the qther large venues that I have been unable to pentrate. I am also struggling with the loyalty factor to the small venues that gave us our first chance.

 

One thing to remember is that a band will have no place to play if the venues go out of business. It's strictly a business for the owners of these venues. They are in it to make money period. While we are making money and stand to make a lot more at these larger venues, the band has to ensure that they are being paid enough, but not so much that the venue loses money. The band and the venue are really partners in this "business". It has to be fair for both sides.

 

I can usually get a pretty good feel for how much a venue can pay and still make money. There are some general factors that I use to determine that number:

1) Is there a cover charge, if so how much.

2) How many people does the venue hold,

3) What is the general crowd size for the night, time of year you are playing, and type of music your band plays.

4) What are other clubs of similar size paying in that general area.

5) What other bands are playing there. If they are top area bands or national acts you know most likely they are being paid well.

 

Knowing this information also ensures that you won't get underpaid as well.

 

I am planning on trying to keep these smaller venues on our rotation as long as possible. The problem is that we are weekend warriors and have limted our schedule to 24 gigs a year (2x a month as general rule). I will do what I can to ensure that we play the smaller venues at least once a year. That not only keeps you "loyal", it also keeps your foot in the door at that venue if the other larger ones go belly up.

 

At some point, if we keep progressing as we are, we will have to cut ties completely with the smaller venues. At that point, I will meet with the owner of these smaller clubs and explain in a very professional manner that we are very gratefull for the chance they gave us, but we have only a finite number of gigs that we can play a year and unfortunately, we need to move on to playing only the larger clubs.

 

I figure a true business person will understand. If not, then there's nothing you can really do about it.

[dughaze]

Very professional thread here. I like how everyone was being honest and ethical about working with the club owners. I am just getting started in the biz so my frame of reference in this stuff is limited. Thanks!!!

 

BTW, though we've had limited success with our first 3 gigs I am dealing with trying to get us to record a demo so we can get better gigs. There's a lot of unreliability with the members and a lack of motivation to improve our so called act (we just get by...if they show up!). I am just trying to take advantage and keep a good attitude about what we do have as opposed to what we are sorely missing in professionalism and desire while constantly scanning for other projects to add as well...