Stage Setup for Sound? (Upcoming Gig)

[TechMetalMan]

(Also posted in the Amp Section)

 

So I have gotten some of my close friends together to make a song for our upcoming High School Talent Show (Follies). My bassist and I made the song- then my second guitarist and I polished it. Yesterday we had a practice and I got everyone (including the drummer surprisingly enough) polished and pretty tight for a first rehearsal with everyone (minus the singer).

 

So the stage setup for bands in the past has been- vocals miced, and everyting else unmiced. This is in a medium/large auditorium with a big stage (large enough for big plays or full band/orchestra concerts). Last year a band played with a bassist, guitarist and drummer. One side of the audience was blasted with guitar (marshall halfstack) while the other was blasted with bass (large bass stack).

 

I am trying to find out what the best way for my band to setup will be to get even sound across the audience. I have a Rectoverb 1x12 Combo- very loud. My other guitarist has a Randall Rg100 2x12 combo (G2) that can keep up with the recto. I was thinking of putting the amps opposite of each other facing at opposite angles (facing in towards the band so sort of wash the rest of the band with the guitar sound sort of as monitors). Drums would be in center and bass would simply face center. Vocals are not an issue since they are miced.

 

My main concern is filling the auditorium with a balanced sound while also making sure the band can hear themselves.

 

I have heard of "sidefilling" which I dont know anything about. What is it? Any other techniques to keep everyone in the band hearing the guitars (especially the drummer) while also keeping the sound out front to the audience?

 

P.s- my amp is 3/4 back so some sound comes out the back.

[GCDEF]

What kind of PA is available?

[TechMetalMan]

NO idea. Whatever the school has. It is large- speakers are built into the walls up top.

 

Im just 98% sure we can't mic our guitars.

 

 

The only thing is that we won't have any sort of sound check or anything besides the day before "dress rehearsal". We also will probably have 5 minutes (10 minutes MAX) to set up. Set up will probably be behind the curtains while a solo vocalist sings in front of the curtain- maybe we can get into a slot after 2 solo acts so we can have 10 minutes or so to set up. We also only have a 5 minute time slot so they would probably say that it wouldn't be worth the hassle to mic things up.

[machinegun78_2]

the ONLY way to sound right in an auditorium is to run EVERYTHING into the sound system.....sorry, but that's how it is. if you don't mic the drums you won't hear them, and if you mic the drums, you won't hear the guitars....

 

now... this is MOST important. DO NOT mic a bass cab! run from a DI out on the amp into the board directly. set bass stage volume to taste. mics don't like low frequencies close up. they like to catch them at a distance.

 

for the drums, kick and snare SHOULD suffice. but you may need to hook up a boom stand for the cymbals.

 

 

as you can see, set up time is AT LEAST a half hour. hope that helps....

[GCDEF]

 

Originally posted by TechMetalMan NO idea. Whatever the school has. It is large- speakers are built into the walls up top. Im just 98% sure we can't mic our guitars. The only thing is that we won't have any sort of sound check or anything besides the day before "dress rehearsal". We also will probably have 5 minutes (10 minutes MAX) to set up. Set up will probably be behind the curtains while a solo vocalist sings in front of the curtain- maybe we can get into a slot after 2 solo acts so we can have 10 minutes or so to set up. We also only have a 5 minute time slot so they would probably say that it wouldn't be worth the hassle to mic things up.

 

 

Under those conditions, I wouldn't do it.

[ratthedd]

 

Originally posted by TechMetalMan NO idea. Whatever the school has. It is large- speakers are built into the walls up top. Im just 98% sure we can't mic our guitars. The only thing is that we won't have any sort of sound check or anything besides the day before "dress rehearsal". We also will probably have 5 minutes (10 minutes MAX) to set up. Set up will probably be behind the curtains while a solo vocalist sings in front of the curtain- maybe we can get into a slot after 2 solo acts so we can have 10 minutes or so to set up. We also only have a 5 minute time slot so they would probably say that it wouldn't be worth the hassle to mic things up.

 

 

I'm tending to agree with GCDEF on this one. If you can't get them to set up your instruments correctly, you're going to sound like {censored}.

 

The minimum that you will need for this performance is as follows:

 

2 mics for drums--kick, snare (cymbals will carry further, and some sound will bleed into the other mics)

 

1 mic for each guitar amp OR take the lineout from each amp through a DI box intot he mix board. (Either 2 mics total, OR 2 DI boxes, OR 1 of each.)

 

1 DI box for the bass amp.

 

 

You can get some "Z" bars to connect the mics directly to your guitar amps, set the amps on some dollies then wheel them in, plug in the mics, and those will be ready to go.

 

Connect the DI box to the bass amp, set the amp on a dolly, then all you have to do for that one is wheel it in, plug the mic cable into the DI box and that one's ready to go.

 

If the drums have to be off stage, then you may be up {censored} Creek, but if you have a drum riser on wheels, or if the drums can be left on stage, then all you have to do is get a couple of mic clips for the drums, anc connect the mics to the mixboard.

 

In an auditorium you absolutely must mic the instruments. There's no other way of getting a good balance of sound.

[Guitar Guru]

This is simple: It's a high school gig......so don't worry about it. The sound is going to be {censored}e no matter what. So my advice is to just go out there, get a decent stage volume, and put on a show. Your friends and schoolmates won't care either way.....they'll just love the fact that you are on stage.

 

Otherwise, your only option to sound "good" is to mic everything......since that isn't going to happen, just put on a good show. That will be more memorable then anything else.

 

Have fun!

[guitarmook]

You won't sound good, so don't worry about it... if you want the best balance, put your guitar amp very close to the drums on one side, the bass amp very close to the drums on the other... try to make the sound as much from one point as possible...

 

 

But generally, focus on the performance, not the sound.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by machinegun78_2 now... this is MOST important. DO NOT mic a bass cab! run from a DI out on the amp into the board directly. set bass stage volume to taste. mics don't like low frequencies close up. they like to catch them at a distance.

 

 

As a bassist and a sound guy, I respectfully disagree. If all you have is a mic, even a lowly SM-57 copy, you can get a good bass sound by close-mic'ing. A DI is fine too....use both if ya get 'em and the available channels.

 

To anyone who thinks you can't mic a bass cabinet for good sound, consider how many hits Motown produced with either Jamerson or Babbitt using a mic'd Portabass and a DI. And this was in a relatiely tiny studio by today's standards.

 

 

Regarding topic at hand, place guitar amps towards the sides of the stage, facing maybe 45 degrees. The idea is to wash the stage and to not blast directly at the audience...enough will reverb off the opposite wall to be heard somewhat evenly. This is sort of halfway between a sidewash and directly blasting the audience, and a compromise. If there's bass, place it facing forward...it's mostly much less directional, and most likely a much weaker amp than needed for a big stage.

 

All's not lost. I've seen and done this many times thanks to teenage poverty (I ain't sayin' how long ago that was), and in an auditorium with decent acoustics it can sound pretty damned good. As stated, concentrate on playing to the crowd. The performance is much more important than the gear.

[TechMetalMan]

Originally posted by machinegun78_2 the ONLY way to sound right in an auditorium is to run EVERYTHING into the sound system.....sorry, but that's how it is. if you don't mic the drums you won't hear them, and if you mic the drums, you won't hear the guitars.... now... this is MOST important. DO NOT mic a bass cab! run from a DI out on the amp into the board directly. set bass stage volume to taste. mics don't like low frequencies close up. they like to catch them at a distance. for the drums, kick and snare SHOULD suffice. but you may need to hook up a boom stand for the cymbals. as you can see, set up time is AT LEAST a half hour. hope that helps....

 

Ha, thanks. But that will not happen. We are only playing 5 minutes.

[machinegun78_2]

Originally posted by Craigv As a bassist and a sound guy, I respectfully disagree. If all you have is a mic, even a lowly SM-57 copy, you can get a good bass sound by close-mic'ing. A DI is fine too....use both if ya get 'em and the available channels. To anyone who thinks you can't mic a bass cabinet for good sound, consider how many hits Motown produced with either Jamerson or Babbitt using a mic'd Portabass and a DI. And this was in a relatiely tiny studio by today's standards. Regarding topic at hand, place guitar amps towards the sides of the stage, facing maybe 45 degrees. The idea is to wash the stage and to not blast directly at the audience...enough will reverb off the opposite wall to be heard somewhat evenly. This is sort of halfway between a sidewash and directly blasting the audience, and a compromise. If there's bass, place it facing forward...it's mostly much less directional, and most likely a much weaker amp than needed for a big stage. All's not lost. I've seen and done this many times thanks to teenage poverty (I ain't sayin' how long ago that was), and in an auditorium with decent acoustics it can sound pretty damned good. As stated, concentrate on playing to the crowd. The performance is much more important than the gear.

 

 

hats off to you friend, because we have NEVER gotten a "good" bass sound from just a 57....a good mix from running both direct AND a mic'ed cab live, but NEVER have we had any luck with a close mic'ed bass cab. once in the studio, our bass player (at the time) ran his half stack mic'ed rather far away in a booth, and that was a very big "John Paul Jones" sound....but that's just my own luck.

 

 

and as I'm WELL aware.....I don't know everything.....

[TechMetalMan]

Thanks guys.

 

My MAIN concern is simply getting a sound that will be heard in the audience (easy) but also have it be heard well by the drummer- he needs it or he will probably get lost.

 

I know our sound will not be good- but it will be fun.

[Next to Nothing]

Have fun and good luck, man!

[TechMetalMan]

Thanks a ton man!

[Terry Allan Hall]

 

Originally posted by guitarmook You won't sound good, so don't worry about it... if you want the best balance, put your guitar amp very close to the drums on one side, the bass amp very close to the drums on the other... try to make the sound as much from one point as possible... But generally, focus on the performance , not the sound.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Guitar Guru This is simple: It's a high school gig......so don't worry about it. The sound is going to be {censored}e no matter what. So my advice is to just go out there, get a decent stage volume, and put on a show. Your friends and schoolmates won't care either way.....they'll just love the fact that you are on stage. Otherwise, your only option to sound "good" is to mic everything......since that isn't going to happen, just put on a good show. That will be more memorable then anything else. Have fun!

 

 

Great advice!

 

Just make a note of your amps' settings at the dress rehearsel and ask other participants about volume issues (is anyone too loud?, that sort of thing)

 

Not much else you can do, really!

 

And like the other guys have already said, just have fun!

 

As for the drummer hearing y'all, just make sure that he can hear the bass well....drums and bass should (ideally) become "the same instrument".

[TechMetalMan]

Cool man- thanks for the support.

 

Audition is the 8th- my only real concern now is the choir guy is the guy who lets people in/rejects. I hear he may not like loud/heavy music.