What would you do if there was a weak link in your band--and it was yourself?

[doubleR]

After searching for about two years for the right band, going on auditions, playing with a whole bunch of people, I finally found a group of guys I like both musically and personally. We're in our mid-40's to early 50's, and play classic rock covers.

 

The band consists of myself on guitar, another guitarist, bassist, drummer and lead vocalist.

 

The other guitarist and drummer have been playing together for years. They're both amazingly talented. The drummer can play any song perfectly. The guitarist is one of those guys who can hear anything once, and duplicate it immediately. (He can also play bass and sing lead). The other day at band practice he pulls his guitar out of the case, and the first thing he warms up to--warms up to!--is Van Halen

 

The bass player is rock solid. He knows his scales and progressions, and can play pretty much any cover tune on the spot. The singer has only been with us for about a month, but he look promising, too.

 

Which leaves me. I'm not as talented musically as the others, but I try to make up for it by working hard. I take our song list, and practice, practice and practice. Then I practice some more. When I'm at home, I'm pretty confident, but at band practice--that's where the problems are.

 

When I just play from the heart and really get into the music, I'm fine. Trouble is I'm so aware that these guys are such great players that I'm terrified of making a mistake. Naturally, the more I worry about that, the more I mistakes I make. Yesterday I forgot the chord changes for some really easy songs I've played hundreds of times.

 

After practice yesterday we were sitting around unwinding, and the other guitarist gently reminded me how important it is for me, as the primary rhythm guitarist, to stay on the beat. He also said "I thought we'd be farther along by now."

 

I feel like a minor leaguer who's been called up from Triple-A for his big shot in the majors, and is only hitting .233. Just like a baseball team, I know these guys won't carry me indefinitely.

 

It's so frustrating because I have the skills to play with these guys--I nail the songs when I'm playing them at home. I wish I could just relax and play the same way when I'm with the band.

 

[EugeneBr]

I think I can relate to your experience. The other guitarist in my group plays much better and I sometimes feel inferior (but I'm the leader, so he can't fire me, besides, we're good old friends :-))) And I'm stronger in other areas, anyways. I'd say you need to concentrate on the positive stuff going on at your band's practices. Do things happen there that you really like? Another thing, you need to stop comparing yourself to those guys. Aren't you a team? Shouldn't you act as one? Catch that team spirit and enjoy it, and focus on it and relax. And if there's no oneness and each of these 'genii' are just self-worshiping kind of guys, I'd run away from there as far as I could.

[mstreck]

I am SOOOOO much the weakest link in the band. Been playing for less than four years and I have so much to learn. The lead guitarist burns up the fretboard and has toured with other bands. The drummer kicks ass. The bass player is rock solid. The lead vocalist is phenom. I am definitely not musically worthy to be in this band.

 

So I spend most of my free time practicing, learning, trying to "catch up". But we all get along really well and enjoy hanging out with each other. And Rik (playing guitar for 25+ years) is more than capable of doing it all. I am basically there to fill in behind his lead work. In fact, I doubt if anyone notices me at all.

 

Another big plus: no one is there to judge anybody. Rik is more than happy to help me along, teaching me things, showing me things, etc. And none of us have aspirations of "making it". We just enjoy playing. If someone screws up, we laugh it off and keep going.

 

The nice thing is, as experienced as those guys are, they still humbly make a mistake now and then. I bet your bandmates do, too. So just keep working to move yourself ahead. If they can't handle that then maybe you should be playing with someone else.

 

Mike

[MrKnobs]

Dude, sucks to be you. Maybe you should just become a hermit and live in a cave.

 

Kidding.

 

Being in a band with better players (whatever "better" means) is a tremendous opportunity to learn and grow as a musician and a performer. Plus it's a lot of fun because them playing makes everything you do sound better.

 

Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

 

Enjoy!

 

Terry D.

[fastplant]

This is pretty much what's happened to me. I'm leaving my current band because of this. I'm playing drums in this band, I used to be pretty talented (at least I tell myself that, haha) but I took alot of time off and played guitar and bass. When I started back on drums I figured it would all come back quick, but it hasn't at all, and I feel I'm holding the other guys back. So, I recently quit to go back to guitar. They're really cool guys and want them to succeed. And at the same time I want to feel more fulfilled, so I'm going back to what's more comfortable.

[Lee Flier]

Yeah, what Terry said. It's a great opportunity.

 

The thing is, in a two-guitar band where you have one guitarist who apparently can really burn it up, what they wanted in another guitarist was not necessarily someone else who can do the same. That might result in too much competition. If you're supposed to be the rhythm guitarist then you have a completely different role than the other guy and that's probably what they hired you for - because you're a good guy, you work hard and you'll just play the song and not be the egomaniac who has to take all the solos. Try to see from their perspective what they see in you and understand what they appreciate about you: you're a role player. To stick with the baseball metaphor, you're the utility man and every team needs at least one of those. The utility man isn't expected to be the superstar and put up those kinds of numbers, but he'd better be ready to step in and fill a role when needed, and he's gotta be a great team player.

 

Maybe if you can see things that way, it'll help you relax more instead of comparing yourself to them.

[THB]

I agree with Terry and Lee. You know, good rhythm guitarists are hard to come by, too. You need to relax, relax relax. Do what you do and maybe develop some good stage moves while you're at it.

 

 

P.S. Relax.

 

 

[tucktronix]

 

Originally posted by MrKnobs Being in a band with better players (whatever "better" means) is a tremendous opportunity to learn and grow as a musician and a performer. Plus it's a lot of fun because them playing makes everything you do sound better. Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. Enjoy! Terry D.

 

 

I agree 100%. Being in a band with better players pushes me to improve my chops.

[Roy Brooks]

You actually have some options.

1) You could simply work harder at it. Or maybe even just work on your rhythm. Buy some guitar rhythm methods and work through them. Spend some time listening to alot of rhtythm guitar players. Keith Richard does it about as well as it could possibly be done. If you feel your rhtyhm is lacking just get to work on it on your own whether it relates to the tunes the band you are playing is doing or not

 

2) Look for a different band. Maybe your forte is not in playing covers note for note. Maybe you should look for your own sound or start learning to improvise. Really good improvisational skills can come in handy if you are ever called to do a pickup gig. And improvisation is an ongoing process. It never gets boring like playing a bunch of tunes the same way each time every night.

 

3) Take some time to woodshed for awhile. Lock yourself in your room and practice. Hone in on what you think your weaknesses are. Listen to all kinds of music. Try some other kinds of music to play. Investigate western swing, blues, country, new wave, rockabilly, jazz. Maybe try your hand at a bit of psychedelic music. But whatever you do don't stop learning.

 

Though if you are really enjoying being in the band you are in just make the best of it and have fun. Learn from those better than you. However, if there are some major ego issues in your band it might be better just to simply do something else.

I was getting together with this bass player and drummer for awhile. And at first it was alot of fun. We were looking for ways to incorporate the way I play with their metal and experimental tendencies. But later on they wanted to go into a more commercial metal direction. I did not fit into that program so I split. Since then I have been gigging regularly and making a living playing. They have yet to play their first show.

[Mr. Botch]

Originally posted by doubleR It's so frustrating because I have the skills to play with these guys--I nail the songs when I'm playing them at home. I wish I could just relax and play the same way when I'm with the band.

DoubleR, your answer is right there. If you can nail the parts at home but freeze up when you're with the guys, no amount of practice on your own is going to fix that.

I'd suggest TELLING the guys that you're having some nerve problems, you're a bit intimidated, and that you're able to nail the parts at home; if they're in any way empathetic they'll do things to help put you at ease. Do you hang with them at all outside of rehearsal? Do you ever just start a "Blues in E" with the guys and see how ridiculous you can make it? Maybe have a beer? This sounds like just a mental block that you can get through, hopefully you'll come up with the right solution. Good luck!

[Guitargeek]

Just have fun, It's not a wanking competition it's a band(a TEAM!), I suggest just letting go of the nerves and just have fun.

 

Noticed how I said "fun" twice? That's what it's all about.

 

I have bandmates that can burn up the fretboard like a mofo,but we all play as a unit and not as a solo competition.

 

obviously you can play the parts, so you have no problems technically, but mentally you need to relax, let go, and have a good time.

 

If you need to tip a few beers back, do it, but don't become dependet on it to play with your bandmates.

 

You should be a group of "Friends" that will help each other and have fun playing together, not feeling inferior to your buddies.

[Craig Vecchione]

+1 to talking it over honestly with the guys. If you don't hack it, you don't hack it, period....as you said, eventually they may wish to move on without you. If they don't understand the issue, that's likely to occur before you get to relax.

 

It's like any other form of performance anxiety....you can't do better until you relax, and can't relax til you do better. Sometimes you just gotta say '{censored} it' and give it your best shot.

[tucktronix]

I think the problem that you're having is that you're "thinking too hard". I've experienced the same thing, myself. You've already been nailing the stuff at home, just go with the flow and play from your heart. Don't ever be afraid to make a mistake. My motto has always been "free your mind, and your playing will follow". If you apply those concepts to your rehearsals, you will begin to feel more at ease with your ability to play these songs with others and your chops will benefit as well. If you have trouble remembering stuff, jot down the name of the songs with the chord changes on a piece of paper and bring it with you to rehearsal. Is there a CD or tape of the material(are the tunes all originals?) at the rehearsal place where you can listen to it? Just keep pushin', fella... and before you know it, you'll be the man who will be drivin' the band.

[FlogRock]

From what I read, my guess is that you mostly worry about the wrong things. You say you're terrified of making a mistake, but that they say that you should play on the beat more. Well, it's no big deal if you play a couple of wrong chords during a show (and probably your band mates don't think so either), but it is a problem if every part you play is played with the wrong feel, or slightly off-beat.

 

If I were you I would focus my practice on these things. If you do that correctly, no one will mind that you can't play solos like the other guitarist, and the mistakes will disappear with enough practice/the confidence to be relaxed.

 

So how do you practice these things? First record a rehearsal, and listen to it with your band mates. You'll hear errors that are a lot more subtle than 'you played the wrong chord there'. Maybe you'll hear that where you thought you were on the beat, you're consistently playing in front of the beat, or that the accents you're playing go against what the rest of the band is playing. At home, practice your parts along to a metronome, and occasionaly record this too. Make sure you're playing the rhythm not just with your hand, but with your whole arm. Heck, your whole body. It's easier to get it tight if you feel the rhythm this way, and it will also make you more relaxed.

 

Practice really hard to stay in this band, and enjoy it, because it's a great to play with better musicians (especially when they are not even arrogant a-holes! ).

[sometimes_called_green]

are really sure you practive right at home?

i mean.. if you can't keep up when you're playing together, it may be because they won't stop when you do a mistake. can you play through your mistakes and catch up when you've done one?

i myself had to learn that the hard way, and i am more and more demanding when ipractice at home..

and if you're nervous abot playing with them, and the problem is just there, just tell them.. (that's what i'd do anyway)

 

i myself play with some very good musicians. i can keep and play with them, but i feel anything they'll play will groove while everything i play will sound like some guy is trying to make it groove.. i guess it's normal to feel like that when you play with good musicians, don't feel bad about it, use it and you'll learn..

 

and most important thing: have fun!!

[gogo]

an old post I enjoyed (thanks to MrK...):

 

Originally posted by MrKnobs P.P.S. It's kinda like a band I was in one time: one guy suggested every time we find a better musician that wants to do our stuff we hire him and get rid of the lamer guy. Trouble with that idea is, yeah, we'd eventually have a kick ass band, but none of us would be in it.

 

[doubleR]

Thanks, everyone, you guys are the best!

 

I was a little hesitant before I started this thread. Some message boards, there's always a few people who will reply with a sarcastic comment when you open yourself up, but everyone has posted very good, constructive advice.

 

I'm going to band practice this Friday with a fresh perspective thanks to all of you.

 

[Vbjamin]

Originally posted by doubleR Thanks, everyone, you guys are the best! I was a little hesitant before I started this thread. Some message boards, there's always a few people who will reply with a sarcastic comment when you open yourself up, but everyone has posted very good, constructive advice. I'm going to band practice this Friday with a fresh perspective thanks to all of you.

 

There you go man, attitude is everything.

I have been down you road and used to be as intimidated as hell. I am not sure when I turned the corner..but I did. Now I would never apologize for what I do or what I bring to the stage. I am a strong personality but a limited singer and a hack guitarist. Still I bring a compelling stage presence, and front my own band surrounded by great players who know what I bring and respect it. I am lucky but confience and strength go farther than many realize. Go for it and enjoy.

[Knottyhed]

Originally posted by doubleR After searching for about two years for the right band, going on auditions, playing with a whole bunch of people, I finally found a group of guys I like both musically and personally. We're in our mid-40's to early 50's, and play classic rock covers. The band consists of myself on guitar, another guitarist, bassist, drummer and lead vocalist. The other guitarist and drummer have been playing together for years. They're both amazingly talented. The drummer can play any song perfectly. The guitarist is one of those guys who can hear anything once, and duplicate it immediately. (He can also play bass and sing lead). The other day at band practice he pulls his guitar out of the case, and the first thing he warms up to--warms up to!--is Van Halen The bass player is rock solid. He knows his scales and progressions, and can play pretty much any cover tune on the spot. The singer has only been with us for about a month, but he look promising, too. Which leaves me. I'm not as talented musically as the others, but I try to make up for it by working hard. I take our song list, and practice, practice and practice. Then I practice some more. When I'm at home, I'm pretty confident, but at band practice--that's where the problems are. When I just play from the heart and really get into the music, I'm fine. Trouble is I'm so aware that these guys are such great players that I'm terrified of making a mistake. Naturally, the more I worry about that, the more I mistakes I make. Yesterday I forgot the chord changes for some really easy songs I've played hundreds of times. After practice yesterday we were sitting around unwinding, and the other guitarist gently reminded me how important it is for me, as the primary rhythm guitarist, to stay on the beat. He also said "I thought we'd be farther along by now." I feel like a minor leaguer who's been called up from Triple-A for his big shot in the majors, and is only hitting .233. Just like a baseball team, I know these guys won't carry me indefinitely. It's so frustrating because I have the skills to play with these guys--I nail the songs when I'm playing them at home. I wish I could just relax and play the same way when I'm with the band.

 

Sounds like you aren't enjoying being in the band anymore. I'd just ask them straight out what they think and explain that you just don't feel in the same league, say you're prepared to stand aside if they want to find somebody else. They'll either let you go - no great loss if being in this band is stressing you out, or they'll convince you to stay - in which case you can stop feeling bad about being the weak link and will hopefully feel less under pressure (and so make less mistakes).

[rim]

If the other guitarist is cool, try to get some jams with just him and yourself. He should be able to help you play tighter and you and him can get to know each other better musically. Since he's locked in with the band, when you lock in with him, then you're also locked in with the band (groove-wise, that is). It may be easier for you to work it out one-on-one. If not the other guitar player, try the bassist or drummer.

[doubleR]

Well, had band practice last night and we lit it up! The best practice we've ever had. I practiced my butt off during the week, went over the songs I had problems with again and again and again. Really got the structure and chord changes down.

 

I was much more confident this week. Still a little nervous during the first few songs, still a little leery about making a mistake, but that passed quickly. I don't know if it was just me, or everyone else was on the same wavelength, but when we took a break everyone commented that we're starting to sound like a band, not just a group of guys jamming.

 

YEAH!

 

[Lee Flier]

Awesome!

[TheAtomicJeff]

Hang in there - if you were truly as weak-linked as you think they wouldn't keep you around. Continue to relax, learn from them and most of all....have fun!