How does your monitor mix sound?

[flip333]

My new band had our first gig a couple of weeks ago. A great time with 150 people rocking in a small bar. We rocked... but....

 

our monitor mix was poor. I run sound from stage, and we had some help from a friend for FOH sound.

 

This was a long narrow bar in which we played in back. We were squeezed over to one side even more to make room for a pool table and a path to the bathrooms.

 

Our new singer/ rhythm guitarist does a great job with lots of stage energy and he is a great guy to have in the band. He is a DJ at a radio station too. He likes lots of effects in the monitors to "hear what the people are hearing out front". He also likes a booming radio voice with lots of lows.

 

The trouble is that when I put these things in the mix, there is no headroom left due to feedback and low frequency power soak. We mic the guitars and a synth in addition to vocals.

 

He wants a certain "EQ".... I can never get it right, and when it approaches his tone, we are feeding back. I usually need to pull down the 4000hz to reduce feedback. Monitors are Yamaha Club IV's with Mixwiz aux out through Peavey 31 band EQ.

 

At practice today, I set up my basement studio with no effects and the EQ was flat (except for the pulled 4K). Our singer was very disappointed. He found it very uninspiring. He says all bands put effects in the monitors.

 

The folks at the live sound site really helped and suggested we turn down.

 

I'll admit, I also like to sing with effects... its very inspiring, and it makes you feel like you are a better singer.... but I think it is just really covering up bad singing don't you think? Isn't it better to sing with a dry monitor?

 

How many of you have special EQ in the monitors with effects?

I am just hoping to get a monitor mix we can all hear.

 

Help ME!!!!! I finally got a good band together again after a 10 month hold up.

 

Thanks for your ideas!

[MarkGifford-1]

Only put things in the monitors that aren't amplified on stage - drums, guitar/bass amps etc. don't really belong in a monitor mix, especially at that size gig.

 

This would mean just vocals, usually. Some FX are OK, but midrange clarity is key.

 

If you're running your synth direct, put that in.

 

Position your amps so that everyone on stage can hear themselves and each other, and play at a reasonable volume.

 

MG

[Monster Joe]

We usually just have vocals in the monitors, everything else is plenty loud.

Exceptions are big stages, where we ask for some drums or open air gigs, where you need just about everything except yourself in the monitors.

Golden rule for guitarists : don't use the monitors to hear yourself!! Make sure you have enough stage volume to hear what you're playing, without of course drowning out everything else...

[Scafeets]

Tell your singer to get over himself. Unless you have money to spare for multiple mixes and in-ear systems, etc., a monitor mix for a long skinny bar gig should consist of dry vocals EQ'd for max clarity without feedback. Then only other stuff that should go into a basic monitor mix would be what you can't hear from the stage amplification, like a horn or keyboard.

 

Sounds like the singer is either very inexperienced or spoiled from playing arena gigs.

[Blackwatch]

 

Tell your singer to get over himself. Unless you have money to spare for multiple mixes and in-ear systems, etc., a monitor mix for a long skinny bar gig should consist of dry vocals EQ'd for max clarity without feedback. Then only other stuff that should go into a basic monitor mix would be what you can't hear from the stage amplification, like a horn or keyboard.

 

 

I can see if your singer wants massive amount of reverb or other effects that the above might be true. but when I was starting my band I heard this from my bass player / sound guy all the time. When I finally got rid of him and mixed the sound myself, I found out it was his excessive volumes and my trying to hear myself over him that caused all the problems. Every singer should be able to hear himself/herself. They will sound like crap if you don't let them know what they sound like, Sure it gets better the more experienced they are, but it's unreasonable to ask them to sing well when they have a crappy monitor mix.

And if you have to have ungodly volume levels, IEMS have problems of their own but as someone suggested before, might be the answer. Good Luck

[Mr. Botch]

 

Originally posted by Scafeets Tell your singer to get over himself. Unless you have money to spare for multiple mixes and in-ear systems, etc., a monitor mix for a long skinny bar gig should consist of dry vocals EQ'd for max clarity without feedback. Then only other stuff that should go into a basic monitor mix would be what you can't hear from the stage amplification, like a horn or keyboard. Sounds like the singer is either very inexperienced or spoiled from playing arena gigs.

 

Agree 100%.

[wheresgrant3]

 

Originally posted by Scafeets Tell your singer to get over himself. Unless you have money to spare for multiple mixes and in-ear systems, etc., a monitor mix for a long skinny bar gig should consist of dry vocals EQ'd for max clarity without feedback. Then only other stuff that should go into a basic monitor mix would be what you can't hear from the stage amplification, like a horn or keyboard. Sounds like the singer is either very inexperienced or spoiled from playing arena gigs.

 

 

 

!--%... tell you singer he should consider an in ear monitor.... a cheap one will run close to $1000. You have 6 independent aux out on the Mix Wiz. Running a wet mix through monitor speakers in a small space is a lighting rod for feedback.

[THBv2.0]

Originally posted by Scafeets Tell your singer to get over himself. Unless you have money to spare for multiple mixes and in-ear systems, etc., a monitor mix for a long skinny bar gig should consist of dry vocals EQ'd for max clarity without feedback. Then only other stuff that should go into a basic monitor mix would be what you can't hear from the stage amplification, like a horn or keyboard. Sounds like the singer is either very inexperienced or spoiled from playing arena gigs.

 

Your singer has very little experience with this sort of thing or he'd know that he's asking for trouble. Monitor mixes should be as dry as possible. Tell this guy that with no sound man, he needs to understand that FOH sound and monitor sound are two different things. If he wants to know what the people are hearing, use a side feed running from the mains. If you do have a FOH sound man, your singer needs to trust that he's doing his job and he needs to concentrate on doing his.

 

 

{censored}in' prima donnas.

 

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by THBv2.0 Your singer has very little experience with this sort of thing or he'd know that he's asking for trouble. Monitor mixes should be as dry as possible. Tell this guy that with no sound man, he needs to understand that FOH sound and monitor sound are two different things. If he wants to know what the people are hearing, use a side feed running from the mains. If you do have a FOH sound man, your singer needs to trust that he's doing his job and he needs to concentrate on doing his. {censored}in' prima donnas.

 

+10.

 

What he also needs to realize is that the louder the monitors are, the more "bounceback" you get off the stage, which gets picked up by on-stage mics and contributes to the feedback, as well as muddying up the FOH sound.

 

Also, many bands make the mistake of running their attenuators (the top knob on each channel) too hot. This increases the sensitivity of the mics and contributes mightily to feedback. Then you waste time and muddy the sound by trying to EQ it out, when frequency isn't the problem. I like to pull the pre-fader gain down, turn the master (or subs, if you're running vocals through one sub and instruments through the other) and push more power out the front.

 

As was said before, the only thing that needs to be monitored in 99% of clubs are vocals, horns, and maybe the kick. If you need a monitor to hear guitars and you're not on a concert stage, your band is too frigging loud.

[SanDiego333]

Originally posted by BlueStrat +10. What he also needs to realize is that the louder the monitors are, the more "bounceback" you get off the stage, which gets picked up by on-stage mics and contributes to the feedback, as well as muddying up the FOH sound. Also, many bands make the mistake of running their attenuators (the top knob on each channel) too hot. This increases the sensitivity of the mics and contributes mightily to feedback. Then you waste time and muddy the sound by trying to EQ it out, when frequency isn't the problem. I like to pull the pre-fader gain down, turn the master (or subs, if you're running vocals through one sub and instruments through the other) and push more power out the front. As was said before, the only thing that needs to be monitored in 99% of clubs are vocals, horns, and maybe the kick. If you need a monitor to hear guitars and you're not on a concert stage, your band is too frigging loud.

 

[flip333]

Thanks.

 

We were too loud. I even felt that tickling in my ears that tells me there is iminent hearing damage.

 

Before this singer came on board, we did a 3 piece farm party last August. It was in a large shed facing outside. Same PA set up. Excellent monitor mix. That drummer was much quieter.

 

I will remember the info about attenuators, bounceback, vocals and synth in monitor only. If we have trouble... boom, we will have a dry monitor.

 

And also, I believe in keeping a positive attitude. So I believe in the people I attract to a band. Focusing on strength is better than focusing on problems.

 

Appreciated!

[bonscottvocals]

Vocals should be heard on stage, but effects are feedback waiting to happen. If the singer can't stand the sound of his/her own voice dry, that singer should get some lessons. They do not need to hear effects, and if they absolutely have to have those effects, have them get in-ear monitors. No excuses.

 

Having sang in everything from tiny rooms, no bigger than a living room w/out a PA to a stage for thousands, I know there's no substitute for hearing your voice as cleanly and clearly as it is leaving your mouth. I also know that since I went to in-ears, I would never go back to a floor monitor.

 

Good luck.

[flip333]

Thanks Bon.

 

It seems most people look at this problem just like you said.