Members Mr. Botch Posted February 7, 2006 Members Share Posted February 7, 2006 About a year and a half ago my cover band Puddlestone went with in-ear monitors, and both I and our bass player went direct and left the amps at home. About the same time our drummer bought a set of electronic drums. Our guitarist still set up his amp on stage, and while he never was too loud it still threw things off in the in-ears at times. Well, on New Year's eve he set up his amp, but didn't turn it on. The next gig, he left it at home entirely, and seems pleased with the sound he's getting. The rest of us were pretty happy, especially our sound man, and the stage sure looks nice and clean now! :thu: Of course, now I'm toying with the idea of plugging my in-ear feed into a hot spot monitor mounted on my keyboard stand, so I don't have those damn things poking me in the ears all night. Wonder if I could get away with that without our soundman knowing... (Danny if you read this, I'm only joking, please step away from the stage ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -=Pennywise=- Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 I've been without an amp for almost two years now. Running a Yamaha DG-Stomp pre-amp/effects processor straight into the PA. Only other effects I use is a recently aquired Dunlop Crybaby wah that I modded like crazy. I arrive at practice, takes me less than two minutes to set up and start playing, friggin sweet. My back now loves me for it too not dragging some 4x12 across the driveway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nobody Told Me Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 Yep, we do that too. Two guitars and bass, running pods and a Vamp2 (bass) direct into the PA. Drummer uses an electronic kit. We get compliments on our sound almost every gig. Drummer uses IEM's, out front we all have our own monitor mix (our PA, our soundman). Each of us can have as much or as little of the others as we want. There's no lack of stage volume, so the old argument of needing a 4x12 cabinet for coverage goes right out the window. Only the players in the crowd notice the lack of amps on stage, and even they compliment our sound. But, they still look skeptical. Usually they say something like, "Well, you guys make it work, and the mix sounds awesome and the guitars sound great, but I don't know... I need my (insert tube amp here) and my 4x12, or I just can't get into it." I can understand, cause I leave my JSX and Avatar cab at home when we gig, and sometimes I do wish I was playing through it, but for our "little old cover band from Iowa" gig, the direct thing seems to work. And it's way easier to set up/dial in/tear down/get paid. 'Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Preacher Will Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 I've been preaching this sermon for a couple of years now. Everything we have goes straight to the board. That includes V-drums, acoustic and electric guitars, and the keys (except for the grand piano and we only use that when we're at home). Many, maybe most guitarists complain that their tone sucks when they don't use an amp. OK, maybe that is true, maybe not. I am still convinced that the only person who notices or cares is them. Precious few people in the audience can tell a Marshall from a Vox. If your tone is so important to you, fine, lug a 4x12 around. I'll continue to stuff my POD in a backpack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -=Pennywise=- Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 I always wanted to try out some IEM's someday to see if I like them. Does it take a while to get used to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickkreuzer Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 Congrats Botch!! I have been so pleased since we did that. It truly makes it so much easier to make the ensemble sound great in smaller clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bonscottvocals Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by -=Pennywise=- I always wanted to try out some IEM's someday to see if I like them. Does it take a while to get used to them? I love them! It takes a bit to get used to losing some of your bass in the sound, but you're intonated, and you NEVER feedback the vocals. I love that, because I can put all the vocal effects I want and don't feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr. Botch Posted February 8, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by bonscottvocals I love them! It takes a bit to get used to losing some of your bass in the sound, but you're intonated, and you NEVER feedback the vocals. I love that, because I can put all the vocal effects I want and don't feedback. What BSV said. I imagine getting used to the earbuds with your first iPod is similar. One thing they do is reduce anything you hear from the audience (unless you set up a separate "audience" mic, as a few do); some bands miss hearing the applause, but in our case we can't hear the booing and that's a big ego boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeeU 22 Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 We run an audience mic and have our soundman turn it up in between songs and during sing a long sections. It works great. We usually turn it down pretty low during the song it self. This way it works as sort of a reverb. If you get good buds and a decent fit you get some decent bass out of them, but they do take a while to get used to. Once you've given them an honest try you won't go back to wegdes. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TreeFolkMusic Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 Our band, TREE, can now play without any PA equipment at all now that the bass player bought an acoustic bass. For the smaller gigs, inside, this is perfect. We can play anywhere anytime with what's in our cases. We still use a PA for other gigs, but the flexibility is great!! Acoustic guitar, fiddle, bass and a bodhran (an Irish drum) and me singing nice and loud. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dogtownmax Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 dunno man. my band could go that route, as we have synth/sampler/electronics, vocals, and guitar. problems are that I (guitar) play lots of dynamic feedback, which is best done interactively with an amp, and the other two folks have had not good luck with sound man running monitors, so they are likely going to a sysem of using an amplifier on stage for the electronics as a monitor, and only turning over monitors for the vocals. so, essentially, we are moving away from the "quiet stage" architechture. i like the idea, but havent been able to make it work. also i am afraid of the potential for ear damage from IEMs. that amplification cone is too exactly placed exactly in the ear, and is a ripe place for damage if something goes wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prog Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by dogtownmax also i am afraid of the potential for ear damage from IEMs. that amplification cone is too exactly placed exactly in the ear, and is a ripe place for damage if something goes wrong. Volume causes ear damage, not IEMs. I can't think of what would suddenly blast an ear out. Never once has a sudden burst of volume happened regardless of what gear I used. I've been doing this for years. You don't lose bass with IEMs. You lose bass with cheap gear. Only guitarists and drummers are stick-in-the-muds when it comes to IEMs. They are more concerned with themselves than the sound of the band. I put the band ahead of everything. All of the instruments, including guitar and drums, sound better with IEMs and a well balanced band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members digital_whisper Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 Well I'm a guitarist and I've been running the IEM's for years now and will never go back. You have to get your mic and mic placement chops up but once you do, it feels like working in the studio live! We went the way of the ampless for a while but the drummer just couldn't stand it. He couldn't afford super high end V Drums so the one's he had were just dreadful to play on. We still use IEM's and have acoustic drums and my guitar amp on stage. The guitar amp is turned down pretty low or I use an Isolation box if I need super loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bonscottvocals Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by paostby I've been doing this for years. You don't lose bass with IEMs. You lose bass with cheap gear. If you honestly think that you get the same bass through any IEM as standing in front of a 500 watt bass amp/cab or 22" kick, you are lying to yourself, but not convincing anyone else. I use IEMs - good ones - I embraced them, but don't try to convince anyone that it's the same for everyone to go from amps to IEMs. Lower frequency signals have a wavelength that requires a certain distance from the source to the ear, and the spl's of in ears are what make them so great for hearing. Those two things alone prevent you from having the same bass you're used to hearing on stage. Unless of course, you were an acoustic jazz trio or the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members THX1138 Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 We tried it for about a set once. I know, not long enough to get "used" to it. Soundman brought in an entire IEM system, and we all gave it a shot. Quite frankly, I hated it. I hated being cut off from the crowd & I hated how sterile everything sounded. Part of what I thrive on is the chaos and energy of the live show, and those puppies pretty much zapped every bit of it. Yeah I understand the benefits of everything from the FOH sound to ear health, but I just plain hated it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by THX1138 We tried it for about a set once. I know, not long enough to get "used" to it. Soundman brought in an entire IEM system, and we all gave it a shot. Quite frankly, I hated it. I hated being cut off from the crowd & I hated how sterile everything sounded. Part of what I thrive on is the chaos and energy of the live show, and those puppies pretty much zapped every bit of it.Yeah I understand the benefits of everything from the FOH sound to ear health, but I just plain hated it. I'm with you. I gotta feel the kick drum, and the bass vibrate through my body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joestanman Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by paostby Only guitarists and drummers are stick-in-the-muds when it comes to IEMs. They are more concerned with themselves than the sound of the band. Any chance YOU could be the "stick in the mud" trying to make others feel the music the same way as you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members THX1138 Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by BlueStrat I'm with you. I gotta feel the kick drum, and the bass vibrate through my body. Zactly. Just felt like I was listenin to a board tape the whole set. Felt like I was faking it. The vocal benefits are undeniable, but to be quite honest, I really don't care to be able to hear my guitar players that clearly. Too distracting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bonscottvocals Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by THX1138 The vocal benefits are undeniable, but to be quite honest, I really don't care to be able to hear my guitar players that clearly. Too distracting. Yep, and as a vocalist, they are an incredible tool. I let the other guys do their things, but I'd never go back to the floor monitors. Maybe my hearing is better, but I have molded plugs, and I get plenty more bleed than I need as far as hearing the audience, drums, etc. No sterility that I can find. Of course, since the bass and drums are reverbrating the stage, and the crowd is in my face, I guess it's hard to feel too separated even with 85% sound isolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doug osborne Posted February 8, 2006 Members Share Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by Mr. Botch About a year and a half ago my cover band Puddlestone went with in-ear monitors, and both I and our bass player went direct and left the amps at home. About the same time our drummer bought a set of electronic drums. Our guitarist still set up his amp on stage, and while he never was too loud it still threw things off in the in-ears at times. Well, on New Year's eve he set up his amp, but didn't turn it on. The next gig, he left it at home entirely, and seems pleased with the sound he's getting. The rest of us were pretty happy, especially our sound man, and the stage sure looks nice and clean now! :thu: ... ) We're just beginning to rehearse for live shows, and I am insisting that we go in-ear all the way (of course, it's just two of us singing, playing bass, guitars, and keys to backing tracks). Rehearsals are going great - Casey, the singer and guitarist, is very happy that he can use exactly the same presets he used to record his tracks. Botch - details! Which IEMs, wired or wireless, individual mixers, etc. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seancarter777 Posted June 25, 2006 Members Share Posted June 25, 2006 Originally posted by Preacher Will I've been preaching this sermon for a couple of years now. Everything we have goes straight to the board. That includes V-drums, acoustic and electric guitars, and the keys (except for the grand piano and we only use that when we're at home). Many, maybe most guitarists complain that their tone sucks when they don't use an amp. OK, maybe that is true, maybe not. I am still convinced that the only person who notices or cares is them. Precious few people in the audience can tell a Marshall from a Vox. If your tone is so important to you, fine, lug a 4x12 around. I'll continue to stuff my POD in a backpack. I hate pods even in the audience... people at my church use them and they always sound cheesy. i say isolate your tube amp if you havet to but please no pod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Raypd Ayp Posted June 25, 2006 Members Share Posted June 25, 2006 Originally posted by THX1138 We tried it for about a set once. I know, not long enough to get "used" to it. Soundman brought in an entire IEM system, and we all gave it a shot. Quite frankly, I hated it. I hated being cut off from the crowd & I hated how sterile everything sounded. Part of what I thrive on is the chaos and energy of the live show, and those puppies pretty much zapped every bit of it.Yeah I understand the benefits of everything from the FOH sound to ear health, but I just plain hated it. Agreed. I've seen a few bands that have gone the totally direct route, and they sounded great... but personally, I just like to feel the air move behind me when I'm standing in front of a couple 4X12's cranked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srsfallriver Posted June 25, 2006 Members Share Posted June 25, 2006 I'm the only member of my six-pice band that doesn't use IEM's. I hate having anything in my ears and I love to hear alot of bass. I plug right into a DI and split between the board and my bass amp, making my amp just a monitor. I also have a hotspot for electric drums, keys, and vocals. The guitarists still use amps on stage. Not using IEM's allows me to hear things that the other band members miss. I can hear the mains, the crowd, and things on stage that don't come through their monitors. Sometimes we're too loud and it seems that noone else in the band seems to notice. Still I guess we could be quieter if I scrapped my amp and went with IEM's, but I doubt that'll happen soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roy Brooks Posted June 25, 2006 Members Share Posted June 25, 2006 I am going to stick with tube amplifiers. They work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prog Posted June 25, 2006 Members Share Posted June 25, 2006 Originally posted by bonscottvocals If you honestly think that you get the same bass through any IEM as standing in front of a 500 watt bass amp/cab or 22" kick, you are lying to yourself, but not convincing anyone else.Lower frequency signals have a wavelength that requires a certain distance from the source to the earI never saw this response. Based on your reasoning, headphones can't produce good bass, either. Or does that extra .5 inch of distance (headphones as opposed to IEMs) make a difference? What is the magical "certain distance" and at what frequency? Considering that a 40Hz (fundamental) wavelength is about 28 feet, .5" is about a .15% increase in distance. .5" is a full wavelength of about a 26kHz sine wave. I don't need to convince anyone of anything anymore. Anyone can do whatever they like. The original poster is just relaying his experience to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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