How do I tell the drummer he lacks dynamics?

[StratAttackJack]

In the last couple weeks I've put this band together, 2 members which are friends of mine (we've gigged together before) except the drummer is a friend of my cousins who, up until a couple weeks ago I only met once.

 

The guy is good, and has really improved with fitting into our style and everything, but he lacks dynamics. Everything is HIT IT AS F**KING HARD AS YOU CAN pretty much all the time. I wasn't sure if at first he was just nervous and overdoing it, but it kinda told me a lot when he said that his favorite drummer was lars ulrich .

 

The guy's been playing for 20 years.

Do I just come out and tell him that he's dynamically challenged? How do I present the problem in a way that won't offend him?

Drummers are hard to come by around here so we are relying on this guy!

[axe2 2001]

I have a similar deal with our drummer but he's been my friend and bandmate for 20+ years. Its still hard to convey critisism without stepping on his style. We've always been a pretty hard hitting band and it wasn't a problem . Recently we started a side project doing originals and some mellower songs that require him to amp it down and he's having a hard time. Fortunatly I can talk straight with him but it's still a battle. Mostly with cymbals. We rehearse in a 3 car garage. I treated the walls as much as possible but by the end of practice those cymbals are just killin me. The best way I found to point out anything with the our project is to record live practice. We all sit, listen and make the point of saying whats on our minds. That comes up alot but it's not put across as a personal jab. I just told him that the multiple cymbal hits are just washing over the entire song and stepping all over the vocals. Like a lead guitarist wankin away for a whole song! I tell him to calm down and he'll get his shots in! Since it's a new project for you, you should be able to just sit down with everyone and air out concerns. He might have some too. But do consider where you practice. A hard hitting drummer in a small room is gonna hurt . In a club or at a show it might not be a problem. Drummers are scarce around here to so if you have a guy thats not a drug addict, shows up for practice, and can keep good time, things like that are small problems! Good luck, Rob

[JMS 2]

"Sorry dude but the world doesn't deserve a second Lars Ulrich - you're out !"

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by StratAttackJack In the last couple weeks I've put this band together, 2 members which are friends of mine (we've gigged together before) except the drummer is a friend of my cousins who, up until a couple weeks ago I only met once. The guy is good, and has really improved with fitting into our style and everything, but he lacks dynamics. Everything is HIT IT AS F**KING HARD AS YOU CAN pretty much all the time. I wasn't sure if at first he was just nervous and overdoing it, but it kinda told me a lot when he said that his favorite drummer was lars ulrich . The guy's been playing for 20 years. Do I just come out and tell him that he's dynamically challenged? How do I present the problem in a way that won't offend him? Drummers are hard to come by around here so we are relying on this guy!

 

I'd tell him just that: you need to have a drummer who can play with dynamics. But if he's been playing 20 years and doesn't see it by now, chances are he won't. You need to look for another drummer.

[thisboyshouts]

very quietly then VERY VERY LOUDLY then very quietly again

[Roy Brooks]

You ought to get together with the other cats in the band and discuss it with them before talking to the drummer. It might be a good idea that the other folks in the band understand your concern and can go along with you when you bring it up to the drummer. It might be as simple as saying something like "You know, dudes, I think one thing that would help this band sound alot better is more emphasis on dynamics." And maybe somebody else in the band can say "Yeah dude, I see where you are coming from. Maybe we should try that." And then try working through each tune and deciding where in each tune the volume should go up or down. You may find that the drummer will be more willing to work on these things as long as everybody else is on the same page. It may take a little bit of time. If over a few weeks or so you don't see any improvement with the drummer it may be time to find another one.

[zookie]

Tell him you've seen greater sublety with sticks in the Rodney King video.

[Roy Brooks]

It might be a good idea not to come off as a smart ass when discussing your concern with the drummer.

[joestanman]

uh. just tell him.

 

what the hell is wrong with people that they can't just make a simple declaration.

[Thundercranium]

Originally posted by thisboyshouts very quietly then VERY VERY LOUDLY then very quietly again

 

:D :D

[Janx]

And for the hell of it, try not to use the word "dynamics"

 

While a guy who's been drumming for 20 years ought to know the terminology, don't assume that.

 

Ask him, "i'd like to hear different dynamics on that song. Dude, can you play that song a bit softer on the drums, so we can hear what it would sound like?"

 

In the above example, you've used a technical term AND said it plainly for those who have no clue what you're talking about. And you haven't said he's doing anything wrong, you just want to have him play the piece different.

[Thundercranium]

If you don't fel comfortable enough to tell him outright, try sitting down and watching a concert video over a few beers. Pick a show with great dynamics like Dave Mathews Band or Eric Clapton with Steve Gadd on drums. Bring up the subject of dynamics at a point in the show when it really helps a song to move and then take it from there.

 

Or throw a blanket over him during quiet passages.

[Jon Doe]

You know what guys? EVERYONE in the band needs to be aware of dynamics.

 

This needs to be discussed at every practice. It's what makes or breaks a band. I know guitar, bass, keyboard, and harmonica players that do the same thing. More isn't necessarily better.

 

I'm a keyboard player and I've been guilty of it before. He needs to understand that a drummer has to play under everybody, not over them.

[StratAttackJack]

Thanks for the input guys. Fortunately the other members of the band feel this way too.

 

My bandmates and I are all going out to watch my cousins band tonight whos drummer is supposedly supposed to be the best in our area (I've yet to hear them). But this could be a good chance to bring it up.

 

I also like the idea of recording our practices, which I'm gonna start doing pronto!

That way is he doesn't "get it" after tonight we can let him hear it for himself.

 

I bet most agree that EVERYONE does need dynamics. I learned that from the very first band I'm in from watching video tapes. I was ALL loud ALL the time! Lol, that was years ago though and I've matured greatly in that area. The music we write is full of dynamics - unfortunately the drummer doesn't follow suit when we all mellow out.

 

I'll let you guys know how it works out, but thanks again for all the advice!!

[PaleoPerry]

 

uh. just tell him. what the hell is wrong with people that they can't just make a simple declaration.

 

 

 

Because sometimes the outcome matters?

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by zookie Tell him you've seen greater sublety with sticks in the Rodney King video.

 

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(ouch!)

 

 

 

[StratAttackJack]

 

Originally posted by PaleoPerry Because sometimes the outcome matters?

 

 

Yeah thats what I was thinking, I try not to act like an asshole to the people I'm jamming with.

[MDLMUSIC]

 

Originally posted by StratAttackJack I also like the idea of recording our practices, which I'm gonna start doing pronto! That way is he doesn't "get it" after tonight we can let him hear it for himself.

 

 

Don't be surprised if this doesn't work as well as you'd think it would.

 

I once worked with a sax player who played way too loud, so I recorded a gig and when he listened to it his comment was, "Wow! My sax sounds great! I can really hear it!"

 

He had no concept that he was supposed to be a part of the band. In his mind, the other band members were only there to back up his solos. He honestly believed that people only came to our shows to hear him play.

[djufart]

As a drummer, let me say that it's pretty damn simple. If you're the leader in the band, play your instrument softer...turn and look back at him with that "let's ALL get softer here" look. He should pick up on what you're doing. If the cymbals are killing you it may be because he's using {censored}ty brass. Some cymbals just have overtones to them that are harsh. Maybe he should look at new gear?

[Scheming Demon]

I will assume some songs are OK when he pounds away at full force since that is what the song calls for.

 

I would take the following approach on songs that require less force.

 

First play the part or song and let him pound away as he usually does. Then turn around and tell him you're going for a different mood with this part, can you try playing quieter in this part or song.

 

Hopefully he'll try it and when he does you immediately tell him afterwards that was exactly what you're looking for. Tell him it sounds great or offer other suggestions (if neccessary) like that was really good now can you also try playing a little less, or more drums, or not so frequent snare hits or whatever. As soon as he gets close to or nails what you're looking for tell him that's great, it sounds great.

 

If he continues to pound away no matter what and refuses to play quieter when asked to, then you've got a major problem.

If his instinct is to play loud and he kind of does it without realizing it just offer signals or remind him to play like he did before. Hopefully he will eventually get it. If not, then you've got a choice to make.

[kurtisqpublic]

I have toyed with the idea of placing a large banner with the word "REMEMBER... DYNAMICS!" on it behind me at practice. That way whenever anyone just starts slammin a tune out all I have to do is point to the sign. I was gonna run it off on the plotter at work and get it up for next practice... From one time to another everyone in the band lapses into "no dynamics land"

~Kurt

[joestanman]

 

Originally posted by PaleoPerry Because sometimes the outcome matters?

 

 

if you are looking for a change, then a simple, polite, tactful SENTENCE will do..

 

Christ you people.

 

You to drummer -

 

"Hey man, you are a little loud in x part... think you could take it down a notch?"

 

"Again from the top."

 

What is so weird/wrong/complicated about this?

[Lee Flier]

 

Originally posted by BlueStrat I'd tell him just that: you need to have a drummer who can play with dynamics. But if he's been playing 20 years and doesn't see it by now, chances are he won't.

 

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

 

Over the past 20 years, what has been asked of drummers has changed dramatically. Dynamics used to be valued, but since the advent of triggering, it seems with most rock, pop, R&B, even country recordings that the goal is for every kick and snare hit to sound just like every other kick and snare hit. In the past few years it's gotten even worse as any drummer who tries to play with any dynamics finds that any such "inconsistent" hit gets replaced with a different hit cut from elsewhere in the song. Or the whole track gets replaced with samples. Then they compress the crap out of the whole thing to the point where any remaining dynamics are squeezed out and it's all just one volume: as loud as possible.

 

So a lot of drummers, thinking they want to keep working, figure that's what their producers and band leaders want and that's how they try to play. If you actually say you want something dynamic they are often shocked and pleasantly surprised.

 

I agree with the several folks who've said that the whole band needs to play with dynamics and it's something that can be handled on a song by song basis. Rather than having some big talk with the drummer, just say "Hey let's work on dynamics at this practice" and maybe play back a recording of a previous practice, so the whole band can hear the dynamics. Then decide where and how you want the dynamics to change, and tell everyone they need to get softer or louder in those spots. Emphasize how much more dramatic and explosive the louder parts are when there's contrast between that and what came before, etc.

 

That way the drummer doesn't feel picked on, and the whole band can learn something/get better at dynamics. And based on what I said above, the drummer may actually turn out to be the biggest cheerleader for better dynamics.

[Body Bomb]

 

Originally posted by joestanman "Hey man, you are a little loud in x part... think you could take it down a notch?" "Again from the top." What is so weird/wrong/complicated about this?

 

 

+1. This has always worked for me.

[StratAttackJack]

 

Originally posted by joestanman if you are looking for a change, then a simple, polite, tactful SENTENCE will do.. Christ you people. You to drummer - "Hey man, you are a little loud in x part... think you could take it down a notch?" "Again from the top." What is so weird/wrong/complicated about this?

 

 

Just settle down, everything will be ok dude. I tell him he needs to play quieter all the time, believe me he needs the constant reminders. I just want him to be able to get it on his own without me having to babysit his ass all the time.

 

Anyhow I've spoken with him about it since my original post and he was cool about the whole thing. The only thing that worries me is he said that he's had past band mates tell him the same thing, which means either he can't improve....or just never wanted too. However he told me he'd rather adjust his playing rather than be out of the band so I've got my fingers crossed.