Criticism.

[ping0y]

How do you guys handle it?

 

(Positive) Does it strive you for your goal to becoming better?

Or (Negative) Does it just make you more depressed..

 

I find it hard to take it. The fact of ignoring it is pretty hard in my mind. It always get stuck, saying negative things again and again.

 

Sure, the music of ours may sound.. "different" and we try to make it better. But when people say it with pure harsh negative feedback about it, I don't even know why i even bother to play or do anything about it. I love to make music, i love to just release my feelings into my instrument.

 

But sometimes, it just pisses me off that no one can give a decent reasoning.

 

*Sigh.

 

 

Words really do hurt.

 

 

~How do you guys handle this??

[flip333]

Musicians communicate an a very intuitive level. They are therefore more sensitive on the average.

 

Body language is much more important than words are. When someone uses harsh gestures to tell you they are not very happy, you have to evaluate what that really means.

 

Miscommunication occurs frequently in a band. If someone doesn't like how you sing, they might think it. They may also be to stupid or shy to tell you clearly. Then later they will say you are a big baby for not accepting criticism.

 

What criticism? Now I'm a big baby? No, now I'm really mad.

 

Last but not least, how someone communicates their "criticism" is a reflection of how they feel about themselves. So what they think is really their problem. Then you get to decide how much "asshole-ism" you can tolerate.

 

Don't forget to redirect your thoughts to what you really want to achieve. Negative forces in you mind will challenge you to abandon your truest desires. Redirect always.

 

Nothing is more important than that you experience the most positive and joyful state of mind you can create!

[BlueStrat]

This usually works for me:

 

 

 

Seriously, there are only a few people I will accept criticism from, because I know that 1) they have no agenda, 2) they know me inside and out, 3) I trust their judgment and 4) they have demonstrated that they know what they're talking about.

 

Real criticism is supposed to be edifying and help you improve. Comments like "You suck", "You shouldn't sing", "You'll never go anywhere", etc etc are not meant to help but to tear down. I avoid those like the plague.

 

Now, if someone I know and trust says "You should think about changing the key of that song so it's easier to sing" or "I don't see that song working for you" or "I wonder about the decisions you're making concerning your business. What are you thinking and how is that going to get you where you want to go?", these comments are constructive in nature and will help me get better.

 

By all means, seek criticism, and for God's sake, don't surround yourself with "yes men" who will tell you that everything you do is wonderful and great. But make sure the criticism is constructive and not destructive. If it's derstructive, just say "thanks for sharing" and blow it off.

[srsfallriver]

The only criticism I acknowledge is when the dance floor is barren.

[2manband]

There's a right and a wrong way to go about criticizing. Personally, if a band member is doing something I don't think is right, I'll usually say, "Can we try it this other way and see how it sounds?" - We'll try it, and then the whole band will talk about it, and if the general concensus it that it's better, then we'll start doing it that way instead. Generally works a lot better than saying "The way your doing that sucks." Nothing's more frustrating than a person who complains about a problem, but doesn't propose a solution.

 

Another way I've had success with is to defer to another band member who specializes in a problem area. For instance, we had a lead guitar player who always started one song too fast. Now, I could have criticized him for it, or I could have insisted that I start the song off, but instead, I said "Let's have the drummer click this one off - he probably has better rythym than any of us." Worked like a charm, and nobody's feelings got hurt.

[StratKat]

Criticism?

 

 

First off, its gonna hurt.

 

Its supposed too.

 

Because criticizing someone is telling them things they are doing wrong but they believe are right.

 

Criticism is NEVER praising someone. It always is a tear down thing. Evenwhen done politely. And the overwelming percentage of us cant take it worth doo-doo.

 

We say we want it, but in fact most of us cant handle it. Because its hard to let someone tell you that YOU are wrong and they are right.

 

But i have learned alot from it. And what triggered me to LEARN from it was how to handle it.

 

I was told by a polite person who had been paid to critique a band i was in, after trying to argue each point he was making as to why we did things OUR way (this is called justifying your actions) that he was PAID to do this. And it wasnt personal. And he didnt care about our reasons, at all. And that we should more or less just shut up and listen to what someone says when they criticise and be polite. After they are gone you can scream at them behind their back as much as you want. BUT, when asking for criticism you should be polite and thank the person giving it. DOnt argue it, Dont justify your actions. And never take personal offense at what is said when YOU ask for it (criticism).

 

In short, be polite and keep your mouth shut or DONT ask for it at all. Because the person criticising is TRYING to HELP you whether you believe it or not.

 

Now then, since i learned this thought from this gentleman i have found it is alot easier to LEARN from others whan my mouth is shut and i am patient. And whatever someone says to me in a critique manner i take home and later at night when alone think on it to see if there is ANY smidgin' of truth. And i have found that if i am honest i can usually see their point to some degree.

 

But to be honest, most of us havent learned that from the cats i see playing in bars. They always justify their ways so THEY dont have to CHANGE themselves. And later they act like you hurt or attacked them personally when THEY asked for YOUR opinion and you helped them by trusting them to accept it.

 

 

edited for spellin thangs...

[ping0y]

Yeah I'm starting to see your guys point of view now.

 

Ask, listen, and then just do it is pretty much what i have to do now.

 

But with all those people whos going to say like "boo~, or you suck" like what bluestrat talked about, i might as well just blow them off and ignore them. Or just say "Thanks".

 

Ah well this sure lighten my mood up.

 

 

I really appreciate your guys help.

[fastplant]

I like well thought out criticism, but I've learned to decipher average listeners feedback as well. They rarely know what they're talking about, but can have good insight.

 

Now there are also other musicians that have sad we should scrap songs that go over great because they want to take the spotlight off us so that maybe their band can have more of a shot. I think that's messed up. Don't lie to me to further your band. If you want spotlight, work on it on your own.

[Jimi Ray Halen]

Criticizing is the easiest thing in the world to do. You have to consider the source. And where they're coming from.

 

Then you filter it. Is it legitimate? Is it the drunken ramblings of a fool? Or is it coming from a friend who has your back?

 

But don't waste a lot of time thinking about it.

 

You have to believe in yourself first, and then you have to believe in your bandmates.

 

Don't let dumbass naysayers drag you down.

 

Nobody is a harsher critic of you then yourself. Don't take criticisms or compliments too seriously. Just keep on trying to improve and try to keep a positive attitude. Because life is short and the alternative to playing is not playing.

[Janx]

yeah, hidden agendas really screw things up.

 

Even if you take criticism at face value (aka the person saying it believes it to be true, and isn't trying to "trick" you), there's a lot of variables remaining.

 

Know that there are better and worse ways of giving criticism.

 

Know that you can get asked for and unsolicited criticism.

 

As a reciever of criticim, the hard part is getting over how it was presented, and the fact that the end message is we're doing something wrong or dumb.

 

I try to translate what someone said into what they were trying to say. Basically, get over the whole, "they're an asshole and insulted me" thing.

 

Once you do that, the message is usually:

they don't like what you're doing

they don't like how you're doing it

they have another way of doing it

 

The last is easy. I rate their way to mine: better, equal, or worse. If it's better, than I adopt their way as mine, and now my way is better. It's an objective decision.

 

The first two are trickier. Being subjective, it's easy to dismiss it. Especially because it's not offering a fix (an alternative choice). I usually push these off to the polling department in my brain. If I keep getting similar "criticism" on the same subject, the polls come in and tell me I ought to take a serious look at what and how I'm doing something. The folks giving criticism in these cases aren't helping me solve it, but they are pointing out a problem.

 

This last bit is important. I see a lot of meetings and such go by where somebody is put down for pointing out problems, but not offering any solutions. This is a way to squelch a problem, and not address it. Not everybody's good and coming up with solutions, but most folks are plenty good at spotting something wrong. The trick is prioritizing the complaints and determining if they're minor blips, or indicative of a problem.

 

 

This means, even with Fastplant's example of the "other band says song X isn't good for us" that just gets translated to:

 

Doing something wrong on topic X

Wait for more complaints

 

If the dance floor is packed, consider that votes opposing the complaint "evidence" Before long, you'll forget about that particular polling item, without even considering their potential hidden agenda. (though as a source of losing polls, if they keep it up, they'll get moved to my mental dumbass-filter, and soon they won't exist in any credible way in my world).

 

Yeah, my brains a funny place, but it keeps the $$ rolling in.

[albert visick]

taking criticism is most useful when it's about technicality and engineering. session musicians, cover bands etc, basically anybody that work within given standards (that they have to achieve), taking it "like a man" is essential for their growth. however, i believe the subject at hand is about criticising "original music (as the first poster implied).

 

to the original poster: whatever you do, not everyone is going to like your songs. as a matter of fact, a large chunk of the population will not even understand your music. the good way to come to terms with this is to put yourself in the other shoe; ask yourself; are there any major acts / supremely popular artists that you really don't care for, nor do you even understand why they are popular?

 

one of such artists for me is U2. i have actually purchased more than a few cd's of theirs in the past and i tried to like them. there just wasn't anything about the band that did it for me. i find their music uninspiring and predictable.

 

let's say they were just a starting out nobody band, and (for whatever reasons) asked *me* how i'd think about their "joshua tree" demo. of course i'd say all sorts of crap about how they need to diversify the sound or the rhythm is too boring etc etc. i'm pretty sure, through out their career, they have encountered a lot of yahoos like me with their so-called opinions. would they have been right if they listened to my opinions and changed their stylistic choices? absolutely not - that album's mega success is a testament to that; there are millions of people world wide that love them and feel their music, regardless of my personal opinion on their music.

 

it is one thing to take advantage of outside opinions and inputs. it is another thing to let them dictate what you feel about your music. the difference here is that, you know well where you want to go / what you want to achieve - whether you are actually there or not. stay open to opinions, and if you think they will help you achieve what you want, then take advantage of them. if not, they should not be relevant to what you do.

 

this yahoo here, never really cared all that much for the beatles' music, apart from their historical importance. we are all different; take comfort in that knowledge if these comments get you down.

[Beachbum]

Originally posted by Jimi Ray Halen Criticizing is the easiest thing in the world to do. You have to consider the source. And where they're coming from. Then you filter it. Is it legitimate? Is it the drunken ramblings of a fool? Or is it coming from a friend who has your back? But don't waste a lot of time thinking about it. You have to believe in yourself first, and then you have to believe in your bandmates. Don't let dumbass naysayers drag you down. Nobody is a harsher critic of you then yourself. Don't take criticisms or compliments too seriously. Just keep on trying to improve and try to keep a positive attitude. Because life is short and the alternative to playing is not playing.

 

[Bandard]

Here's a management technique that works:

 

The Hamburger Method.

 

 

Say something good.

 

 

Then say your criticism. It's very important to phrase it in a way that does not attack the person, but what is wrong. like. "You're singing is out of tune" instead of "You suck at singing"

 

 

 

Then say something else good.

[DanteRTS]

For me personally, and this goes beyond just my music, is to try and strip everything away but the bottom line. Take away the fact they may have had a bad day, or they're insecure about themselves so they're just saying something negative to try and equal things back out.

 

You have to be confident to do this.

 

Having somone be totally P.C. about critisism would be nice. "I can tell you've worked really hard on your guitar. You're getting tighter on the verse riff. However, let's spend a few minutes with the bridge section. I think you may have been dragging it a bit." More often than not, you'll get "Dude, you're sucking on the bridge part. What the {censored}!"

 

Just have to learn to put a filter on the BS, and take the critisism as a tool to get better.

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by albert visick taking criticism is most useful when it's about technicality and engineering. session musicians, cover bands etc, basically anybody that work within given standards (that they have to achieve), taking it "like a man" is essential for their growth. however, i believe the subject at hand is about criticising "original music (as the first poster implied). to the original poster: whatever you do, not everyone is going to like your songs. as a matter of fact, a large chunk of the population will not even understand your music. the good way to come to terms with this is to put yourself in the other shoe; ask yourself; are there any major acts / supremely popular artists that you really don't care for, nor do you even understand why they are popular? one of such artists for me is U2. i have actually purchased more than a few cd's of theirs in the past and i tried to like them. there just wasn't anything about the band that did it for me. i find their music uninspiring and predictable. let's say they were just a starting out nobody band, and (for whatever reasons) asked *me* how i'd think about their "joshua tree" demo. of course i'd say all sorts of crap about how they need to diversify the sound or the rhythm is too boring etc etc. i'm pretty sure, through out their career, they have encountered a lot of yahoos like me with their so-called opinions. would they have been right if they listened to my opinions and changed their stylistic choices? absolutely not - that album's mega success is a testament to that; there are millions of people world wide that love them and feel their music, regardless of my personal opinion on their music. it is one thing to take advantage of outside opinions and inputs. it is another thing to let them dictate what you feel about your music. the difference here is that, you know well where you want to go / what you want to achieve - whether you are actually there or not. stay open to opinions, and if you think they will help you achieve what you want, then take advantage of them. if not, they should not be relevant to what you do. this yahoo here, never really cared all that much for the beatles' music, apart from their historical importance. we are all different; take comfort in that knowledge if these comments get you down.

 

Dude, I put your cd on my ipod (the kids got me one for dad's day-sweet!) and I have to tell you, with headphones, I get even more impressed by your music- in addition to the songs, the recording techniques are awesome the layering is lush, the balance is impeccable, tones are great-all things that contribute to the stuff being so evocative. I guess what I'm saying is I dig it! It'll be great on my motorcycle trip to San Diego for the Geezer Jam in September.

[Blackwatch]

Ignore both critisim and praise.

One hurts and the other hurts more.....

 

And then what BS said........

[albert visick]

Originally posted by BlueStrat Dude, I put your cd on my ipod (the kids got me one for dad's day-sweet!) and I have to tell you, with headphones, I get even more impressed by your music- in addition to the songs, the recording techniques are awesome the layering is lush, the balance is impeccable, tones are great-all things that contribute to the stuff being so evocative. I guess what I'm saying is I dig it! It'll be great on my motorcycle trip to San Diego for the Geezer Jam in September.

 

why thank you very much for the plug (hahahaha. incidentally, this record's available in the foyer). coming from you it means a lot. there were a lot of difficulties and a lot of restrictions i had to face (just like any other self-funded, self-produced projects). of course i can personally spot a lot of flaws, parts that i wished i were able to re-track etc etc, but i'm glad that those aren't apparent to others. i guess we tend to lose healthy perspectives on the things we've created ourselves. i'm sure there are some guitar bits on your album that you are not happy with, that which a hack guitarist like myself will never ever notice in a million years.

 

btw would it be dangerous to ride a motorcycle while putting headphones on?? damn i don't even walk on the streets with headphones on (then again drivers around here drive pretty aggressively).

[Scott Powell]

 

Originally posted by srsfallriver The only criticism I acknowledge is when the dance floor is barren.

 

 

 

 

i second that. if they are sittin gwith thier arms folded, its a GREAT idea to shift gears

[JBJ]

depending who its come from it does hurt but luckilly it come svery rarely.

 

my dads brutally honest and the worst ive3 had off of him in years has been:

 

you're too quiet, everyone is saying you should turn up

 

and

 

the set was great but you swear too much in between songs.

 

 

i'm probably harder on myself than what i need to be. a recent gig i done i thought went "ok" and i kept telling myself it should have been great and not just ok.

 

i got kinda bummed but just about everywhere i went int he barfor the rest of the night [people would come over and say i was great, they liked the songs etc... one dude from another band went as far as to tell me he wished he could sing like me.

 

i really took that to heart cos im a guitarist 1st and foremost and se emyself as not much more than a jumped up karaoke singer but when people do tell me i'm good i get a bit humble truth be told.

[matt greeno]

Positive - "Thank you"

Negative - I take it a little personal

[cooterbrown]

 

Originally posted by matt greeno Positive - "Thank you" Negative - I take it a little personal

 

 

I really have a hard time taking compliments. I am not sure what the psychological impetus for that is, but I just try to be polite, smile and say "thank you, I really appreciate that."

[brothertupelo]

i can only remember one instance of direct criticism of my playing. a man came up to me and whispered in my ear "you suck". i was mostly just surprised. i do get a lot of strange comments that i can't parse out.

 

people criticise me personally all the time, though.

[harmonica eroti]

If you display your music to the public in some form you are already asking people what they think. Automatically people are going to judge you for good or for bad. Like many people here have said, "one would have to consider the source". So take criticism AND PRAISE with a grain of salt. Anytime anyone puts something on display for all to hear or see it is going to hurt the ego if someone says something negative about it. There will be someone who will say something negative. Just except that fact. You can not please everyone. Also, some types of music might go over well in some areas and well in others. Maybe you might not have found your audience?

 

Most music listeners (in my experience) lack the knowledge to explain why they are feeling what they are feeling. Example: Your singing sucks! Is it because I am off key, is it my inflections, is it the tamber of my voice, is it the vocal melody, etc etc. If it is something that is subjective like inflections and tamber then if the band is happy with it why change. If it is something like pictch and being able to hit certain notes........then I would say get better or get another singer.

 

When people give you criticism don't ever show that you are mad about it. Just give them a thank you and ponder about it when you are less emotional about the situation.

 

My 2 cents.

[scott_335]

 

Originally posted by Janx yeah, hidden agendas really screw things up. Even if you take criticism at face value (aka the person saying it believes it to be true, and isn't trying to "trick" you), there's a lot of variables remaining. Know that there are better and worse ways of giving criticism. Know that you can get asked for and unsolicited criticism. As a reciever of criticim, the hard part is getting over how it was presented, and the fact that the end message is we're doing something wrong or dumb. I try to translate what someone said into what they were trying to say. Basically, get over the whole, "they're an asshole and insulted me" thing. Once you do that, the message is usually: they don't like what you're doing they don't like how you're doing it they have another way of doing it The last is easy. I rate their way to mine: better, equal, or worse. If it's better, than I adopt their way as mine, and now my way is better. It's an objective decision. The first two are trickier. Being subjective, it's easy to dismiss it. Especially because it's not offering a fix (an alternative choice). I usually push these off to the polling department in my brain. If I keep getting similar "criticism" on the same subject, the polls come in and tell me I ought to take a serious look at what and how I'm doing something. The folks giving criticism in these cases aren't helping me solve it, but they are pointing out a problem. This last bit is important. I see a lot of meetings and such go by where somebody is put down for pointing out problems, but not offering any solutions. This is a way to squelch a problem, and not address it. Not everybody's good and coming up with solutions, but most folks are plenty good at spotting something wrong. The trick is prioritizing the complaints and determining if they're minor blips, or indicative of a problem. This means, even with Fastplant's example of the "other band says song X isn't good for us" that just gets translated to: Doing something wrong on topic X Wait for more complaints If the dance floor is packed, consider that votes opposing the complaint "evidence" Before long, you'll forget about that particular polling item, without even considering their potential hidden agenda. (though as a source of losing polls, if they keep it up, they'll get moved to my mental dumbass-filter, and soon they won't exist in any credible way in my world). Yeah, my brains a funny place, but it keeps the $$ rolling in.

 

 

 

I like how you think. I too enjoy a mental dumbass filter.

[fishmanrod]

I actually got fired from a band for being too harsh. I was right, but I was a dink in the way I presented it.

 

They decided that even though they liked my playing they didn't want to spend time with a jerk like me.

 

Talk about a slap in the face. Since, I have really thought deeply about how I tell others what I think, and how I take critisism.

 

The people in bands I play in usually become my friends. Why would I treat my friends like {censored}? Now I use a lot of the techniques noted above. However, what I think about above all else is "is this important, is there potential for change, and is it worth the emotional angst for both of us to bring this up". If the answer is no to any of that, I let it slide.

 

As to the band that fired me, they were good players, some classically trained, but they were a bunch of wimps! They broke up a week later, and NONE of the members ever ended up forming a band since, going on 3 years! HAHAHAHAHA!

 

Cheers!