Looking for drummer with no song list?

[BlueStrat]

Well, I just hate it when I play in hired gun bands where half the players don't even know each other before the gig and the band leader calls out a song like Soul Man or Wild Nights, only to have the drummer or bass player stand there with a deer in the headlights look and say "How's that one go?" And you have to stand there and explain it to them. Those guys might get the call once, but not twice. And for me, the audition process is in large part to see how well the guy can actually learn a song as much as how he can play it. I don't hjave hours to spend on rehearsal, and when we do rehearse, I want it to count by learning cool stuff, not the standards.

[DevilRaysFan]

Well, I just hate it when I play in hired gun bands where half the players don't even know each other before the gig and the band leader calls out a song like Soul Man or Wild Nights, only to have the drummer or bass player stand there with a deer in the headlights look and say "How's that one go?" And you have to stand there and explain it to them. Those guys might get the call once, but not twice.

 

 

thats because you have never called me as a sub bass player

 

I know both of those....Wild Nights I know both the original way and the John Mellencamp way

[wades_keys]

Just speaking for myself, when I join a band I feel like Im starting from scratch....There are several songs I have learned by osmosis over the years that I have never heard the actual original and couldnt tell you if the version I know has the right or wrong arrangement....Best for me to keep a fresh mind and not pollute a new situation with earlier bad habits

 

I hear ya - but even so that to me sounds like too much work.

 

Why not just have the band send you an mp3 of whatever arrangement they play; then learn it and show up for the audition ready to go?

 

That's how i do it anyway.

[wades_keys]

And for me, the audition process is in large part to see how well the guy can actually learn a song as much as how he can play it.

 

Good point - I guess that's why so many auditions want to throw you in the fire and have you play a song you did not prepare for.

 

I simultaneously love and hate those situations - I never quite know how I'm gonna come out of it (on keys especially).

[jamsession]

 

Exactly bro - people make all these damn excuses, water down their parts or whatever all to hide that fact that they are too damn lazy to work up the song properly. But I ain't gonna get worked up about it, we'll just blow those bands off the stage hopefully - or at least make the songs sound the way the audience remembered.

 

 

I don't see where the original poster says the guy is making excuses or refuses to learn songs or anything like that. It sounds like you are carrying too much baggage from your first "divorce". This isn't even a band yet. I know that I personally have been "burned" in the past by learning a bunch of tunes off a bands CD just to have them flake and not even show up for the audition. I think it is wise to move cautiously before investing any significant time in a project that will in all likelyhood never get off the ground.

[DevilRaysFan]

I hear ya - but even so that to me sounds like too much work. Why not just have the band send you an mp3 of whatever arrangement they play; then learn it and show up for the audition ready to go? That's how i do it anyway.

 

 

 

Actually, as a sub, I do this when I can and if time allows --- The person hiring me ( if its someone new) will send me a songlist...If there is something I dont know or Im vague with on it, Ill download an MP3 or MIDI file (the MIDI files work good because I can solo/mute parts and print sheet music) providing its a good MIDI......I had to do Nights In White Satin not too long ago and I played it dead on ver batim without rehearsal...I was fortunate that the people that hired me did the record arrangement

[wades_keys]

I think it is wise to move cautiously before investing any significant time in a project that will in all likelyhood never get off the ground.

 

Great point - but I think in this case we're talking 1, maybe 2 songs. Auditions IMO can't just be big stupid jam sessions - that goes nowhere.

 

If I were the auditionee, I would want to have a song or songs to work up and bring to the table - so I can show them my best.

 

It just seems to me that someone who avoids that situation, is likely lacking something musically and wants to hide behind "the jam".

[corbind]

I know people don't want to invest lots of time to learn songs, audition and then not get hired. But we play just covers so I figure a guy could (and should) learn at least 3 songs for an audition.

We're definitely gonna audition this guy just because I want to see how funny it's gonna be. "We're gonna play X song by Y. You guys ready? New guy, you ready?"

"How does it go?"

"You didn't want a CD, MP3, lyrics or structure printouts and now you're askin'? On our time?"

[moody]

Thats exactly what Im saying, because what I do on bass is dictated by my drummer, and no two drummers play exactly the same Its not a pit orchestra, its a band If theres one thing I have learned is that note-for-note ONLY works if everybody plays it note-for-note and ( and this is the trick), with the right feel If the drummer doesn't meet any of those last two criteria, than my bassline changes for the sake of the groove ( so I can lock up what the drummer and I are doing together). Playing a song "right" is what makes it work, not necessarily if Im playing note-for-note.....Around where I live, a drummer plays note-for-note, without any liberties, and with the right feel generally NEVER There are certain songs I feel that you just cant jam on and should be rehearsed, but I'll never show up for a rehearsal to go over "Mustang Sally" or "Old Time Rock N Roll" unless the bandleader is planning a paradigm shift ............. I couldnt disagree more: I can play Mustang Sally 3 different ways with 3 different drummers because they all feel it different. Given what I said above, a good cover band makes it work, packs a dancefloor, makes the club money, and creates energy, regardless if its note-for-note or not. Music is more about selling what you do to an audience moreso than playing it

 

 

As a cover band bass player I agree absolutely with everything you have said. I know a lot of covers, in many cases I haven't heard the original songs in a long long time and never specifically for the bass part - but having the feel of the song and locking in with the other musicians is what you need to get the crowd going.

 

In many cases, due to wrist problems, I can't play the songs as originally played, as long as the energy and the groove are there it is absolutely fine.

 

Of course there are songs that you need to know particular parts and particular stops, but I play born to be wild for example. I'm almost certain that what I play when the drum part changes in the solo is wrong, but it fits and sounds good and no one has ever commented or stopped dancing.

 

I've been slightly involved in a tribute band before (never performed with them but learnt the parts and rehearsed) and for that you need to know everything exactly as well as having the correct look and equipment.

[jamsession]

 

I know people don't want to invest lots of time to learn songs, audition and then not get hired. But we play just covers so I figure a guy could (and should) learn at least 3 songs for an audition. We're definitely gonna audition this guy just because I want to see how funny it's gonna be. "We're gonna play X song by Y. You guys ready? New guy, you ready?" "How does it go?" "You didn't want a CD, MP3, lyrics or structure printouts and now you're askin'? On our time?"

 

 

It is more than not getting hired. The flake ratio is way too high these days. You don't know if you are dealing with flakes or not until you know them, if you know what I mean. And as a drummer, I spend way too much time sitting on my hands while one of you guys figures out your part. Yea, you thought you knew it coming in, but it turns out you didn't. And for the bands that say they play it like the record, you don'tm but you said you did and that is how I learned it. Now I have to learn all the "minor" changes you made in the arrangement at rehearsal and remember them for the gig next week. Bah.

[cooterbrown]

If someone is going to give me an answer like "let's just jam and see if we gel", if I don't know the person, then the first thing I am going to do is ask "where are you playing next so I can come and give you a listen?"

 

I don't like "musical surprises" (of the bad kind).

[wades_keys]

I know a lot of covers, i n many cases I haven't heard the original songs in a long long time and never specifically for the bass part - but having the feel of the song and locking in with the other musicians is what you need to get the crowd going.

 

Don't know what to say to this, other than: how long does it take to listen to a song and get familiar with it before going to an audition?

 

You won't even do that?

 

Damm dude, I'm sorry but that's laziness.

 

Plus you're a bass player and you're saying you have songs that you have never specifically listened for the bass part? WTF?

 

I'll close by saying this - I'm not in a tribute band - I don't obsess over every detail. But I most certainly DO listen to all of the tunes we play. I listen to all of the basslines in the tunes that we play. I strive to learn all of the fills and signature lines in the tunes that we play.

 

And I don't take very long to do it, because I don't use tabs or shortcuts.

[wades_keys]

I know people don't want to invest lots of time to learn songs, audition and then not get hired. But we play just covers so I figure a guy could (and should) learn at least 3 songs for an audition. We're definitely gonna audition this guy just because I want to see how funny it's gonna be. "We're gonna play X song by Y. You guys ready? New guy, you ready?" "How does it go?" "You didn't want a CD, MP3, lyrics or structure printouts and now you're askin'? On our time?"

 

 

That's the spirit! Exactly - it is YOUR time.

 

Your audition, on your terms.

 

Sounds harsh when put this way but it is 100% the facts.

 

Let us know how it went - I'll go out on a limb and predict that the guy is a hack - come back and let me know if I was right!

[wades_keys]

And for the bands that say they play it like the record, you don'tm but you said you did and that is how I learned it.

 

 

We do.

 

Except for endings of course.

 

And if you were to come in and play it right and we didn't; hell that would just show us that you did your homework.

 

We keep an mp3 player with the original versions of all tunes for reference.

 

I just don't see those little possibilities as reasons for not learning the tunes off the record prior to audition.

 

It's very illuminating to see people comment how they haven't heard original versions of tunes in years, or can't remember the key the original is in. I can understand how that happens over the years, but man - tighten up - how long does it take to listen to the original version and get back on track?

 

Just no excuse IMO for laziness and not even listening to the originals - who cares if your last band played a reggae version of heaven's door? The new band wants the Dylan version, then dammit throw on the Dylan and learn his version.

 

Anything less is burnout/laziness IMO.

[DevilRaysFan]

Damm dude, I'm sorry but that's laziness. Plus you're a bass player and you're saying you have songs that you have never specifically listened for the bass part? WTF?

 

I believe youre missing the point here, and maybe its a point that just longtime pro bass players understand: the groove is whats important....the guy that recorded the original bass part laid a track with a particular drummer. The small nuances that are there we hear because thats how that particular rhythm section laid it down, but we can only recreate that if the drummer we are working with is recreating the original parts, and feel, exactly perfect.....You'll be surprised how many times that I walk into a situation knowing the correct bassline to a song but because Omar Peart Bonham on the drums is playing drum clinic every four bars (OK, thats a little extreme but you get the idea) that I completely have to create`a whole new bassline yet the guy that hired me says "That was perfect"... Go figure......Thats called being a groove player and is what keeps me getting hired over and over again: I listen and adapt

 

Like I said above : I will download an MP3 or MIDI file to learn the bassline to a song, but its more important for me to put emphasis on knowing the arrangement first and foremost over learning the exact bassline because if I show up at a gig with a drummer that drags and the original drum pattern is on the beat, than the nuances of my bassline - as well as the actual notes and their values - change...

 

I dont understand why thats so hard for you fulltime/longtime pros but non bass players to underatand. Bottom line: If a bass player is covering a song note-for-note with the correct nuances but the drummer is NOT - or IS but with the wrong feel - then we are NOT grooving In this case: the drummer is doing whatever and the bass player is locking into his own mental sheet music ....Drummers we work with all feel it differently, .therefore the bassline and nuances are subject to change.....Thats`how I can support keyboard players, harp players, and guitar players and especially the vocals: by providing you with an easy solid bed of groove to work around that you can feel and not get in your way..and, in the process, trick you guys into thinking I played the exact part

 

In the defense of drummers: this works for them as well - theyre not locking in with the bass player if the drummer is laying it down like the record but Stanley Wooten Collins decides to play slap-a-thon where he shouldnt be...his drum part will change: In this case, he should simplify and lock it down more (but, unfortunately, what usually happens is that he starts playing more, clanging the ride cymbal, and the whole thing turns into a cluster-{censored}).....

[HuskerDude]

Just about every audition I've been on (as a drummer and otherwise) has been like that. If I had some dude tell me I needed to know X set of song before I can even play with them, I'd find the most polite, but quickest way possible way to hang up the phone as soon as possible.

[FuzzShifter]

If you want note for note, either hire a computer, or do it yourself.

You hire musicians for a reason.

I feel the word musician gets thrown around a lot.

A guitar player plays guitar. A guitar playing musician is whole new breed.

I'm betting this drummer is good. He'll probably show how good he is when the rest of the band can't improvise.

Remember people, Cherry Lane sells transcriptions, not music.

[wades_keys]

You'll be surprised how many times that I walk into a situation knowing the correct bassline to a song but because Omar Peart Bonham on the drums is playing drum clinic every four bars (OK, thats a little extreme but you get the idea) that I completely have to create`a whole new bassline yet the guy that hired me says "That was perfect"... Go figure......Thats called being a groove player and is what keeps me getting hired over and over again: I listen and adapt

 

You are not the type of bass player I was ranting against.

 

As a bass player myself, I relate 100% to what you say about locking in with the drums.

 

Our drummer gets pretty close to the studio versions; but I can think of one song we do where his kick pattern is different than the studio so I have to use my ears and groove rather than just playing the part as recorded.

 

That's all good - again, that's not what I was talking about.

 

I'm talking about cats that water down every cool bass line into it's most basic root-octave or root-fifth type of cheese and sound like Ac/DC.

 

They are out there; and they use the same type of rationale as the more pro players - to hide their laziness.

[wades_keys]

If you want note for note, either hire a computer, or do it yourself. You hire musicians for a reason. I feel the word musician gets thrown around a lot. A guitar player plays guitar. A guitar playing musician is whole new breed. I'm betting this drummer is good. He'll probably show how good he is when the rest of the band can't improvise. Remember people, Cherry Lane sells transcriptions, not music.

 

 

Remember dude, jazz and jam music is for improvising.

 

Cover bands are for giving people a recognizable song.

[wades_keys]

Just about every audition I've been on (as a drummer and otherwise) has been like that. If I had some dude tell me I needed to know X set of song before I can even play with them, I'd find the most polite, but quickest way possible way to hang up the phone as soon as possible.

 

 

Why?

 

Why would you want to waste the bands time just "jamming"?

 

Seriously - since when did cover bands become jazz bands or jazz combos?

 

And yes, I can improvise and fake my way through tunes.

 

But that is not the role of a cover band.

 

TO me, an ideal audition would consist of both playing through some standards and improvising.

 

Refusal to learn even a couple of standards for an audition makes no sense to me - it's so easy to do!

[BlueStrat]

 

If I had some dude tell me I needed to know X set of song before I can even play with them, I'd find the most polite, but quickest way possible way to hang up the phone as soon as possible.

 

 

Well, if I had a drummer I was auditioning balk at learning a couple of songs for the audition, I'd pass, because I would assume he couldn't learn songs on his own time and come to rehearsal ready to play them.

 

Like I said before, in a cover band, being able to learn the songs and come prepared is part of the audition process. Doesn't matter if you're a drummer, guitar player, keyboardist or kazoo blower.

 

We don't learn songs at rehearsal, we learn them at home and rehearse them at rehearsal.

[HuskerDude]

Why? Why would you want to waste the bands time just "jamming"? Seriously - since when did cover bands become jazz bands or jazz combos? And yes, I can improvise and fake my way through tunes. But that is not the role of a cover band. TO me, an ideal audition would consist of both playing through some standards and improvising. Refusal to learn even a couple of standards for an audition makes no sense to me - it's so easy to do!

 

 

 

Oh, I don't play in jukebox bands. People who think jamming is a waste of time probably wouldn't be much fun to be in a band with.

[BlueStrat]

 

jukebox bands.

 

 

Hey, at least you're not smug and condescending.

 

How's the air up there?

[wades_keys]

Oh, I don't play in jukebox bands. People who think jamming is a waste of time probably wouldn't be much fun to be in a band with.

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

In a cover band context, or an established original band concept, the song structures are already established.

 

So you get a copy of the tune, and you learn it.

 

Wow - what a concept!

 

Even jam bands have tunes and basic arrangements for their tunes; they just usually extend on the fly certain sections like the solo and the ending. THe head of the tune generally doesn't change too much.

 

So even in that context, it pays to know the tempo, key and changes of the head before going to the audition.

 

Look at it this way - a band is auditioning someone with the intent of them being able to play their tunes.

 

So they want you to learn a tune or two (or even more) and come to the audition.

 

You cats that aren't down with that - what the hell kind of audition do you expect to have then?

 

Oh - i get it. A "jam" session. Wow - I'm sure the band is real willing to go back to square zero just for you and fart around on a bunch of nothing....

 

Back in my day a jam session meant busting out standards. WHat the hell kind of jam session are you talking about where no one knows any standards?

[BlueStrat]

 

Oh - i get it. A "jam" session. Wow - I'm sure the band is real willing to go back to square zero just for you and fart around on a bunch of nothing....

 

 

Ahahahahaha!

 

"Let's just jam" = code for "Wow, I didn't realize this was going to take work...."

 

I've been to countless jams, and really, I'd rather put pins in my eyes. Some of them were fun, most were a colossal waste of time I'll never get back.