Choosing Your Role In A Band (the opposite perspective to keybear's thread)

[wheresgrant3]

I was in Keybear's thread about ready to reply when I decided to create a brand new thread. His thread was pretty topical to me... considering I've been in his drummer's situation. This is long and wordy... but provides a perspective of choosing your role in a band. I think there is a lesson learned, if bandmembers and musicians can have an open mind.

 

For 12+ years I've been steadily playing in cover bands and eight of those years I've played in a popular regional band, that plays all over NY and into New England. We built it as a business with the desire to make this a second income for all of those involved. I was there from the beginning... with the two co-founders. Call me employee #3. . Since 2005 the band has maintained a heavy gigging schecule... 7-10 gigs per month, some travel (up to 6-12 hours round trip with overnights). Over the years we've had some small lineup changes... some people left due to family and professional obligations. Others were replaced when they couldn't commit to the schedule or pull their weight. When the schedule started eating into my day job (we all have day jobs) I came to a crossroads: leave the band I helped to create or find a sub willing to cover the gigs I couldn't make or distances I couldn't travel. Luckily, as a keyboard player there weren't a ton of players standing in line waiting to replace me. I was lucky enough to find two competent players to cover my parts... maybe even mentor come the day I choose to leave.

 

All was good

[MyOLPRocks]

My perspective on things is probably a little different then most...when I started playing out, I thought that what the audience heard was the most important thing...and that said, I would endeavor to help the band anyway I could.

 

Now considering the way I broke into playing live, it became pretty clear early on that there were times that I would lay back, adding little things here and there, or maybe not really play much, depended on the song, depended on what myself and other contributed to the song..

 

So imagine my surprise when there were songs where I couldn't be heard, but the audience went nuts.....so what did I contribute? Seriously, probably part of the act, the image, the feel of the song....who knows...who cares....it worked!

 

Other times I played and the audience went fruitcake......it worked!

 

So that perspective goes like this...if a real gigging pro band wanted me in..and let's say for grins it didn't work out being a player...but they liked me...so they put me on sound, and I had a knack for that..or for helping the stage show, or for managing away all the little {censored}ups that break up a band and create drama, or for being able to get gigs, promote..get a record deal...open for a big act...who's complaining?

 

When we take our egos out of the equation and think of this as a mission and not 'look at me, look at me'...it's amazing how the players will move around the chessboard...like Malcom putting Angus out front.....Malcom in back...

 

I see your opportunity to be part of this band is still firmly there, and like all of us, we are getting older and can't be kids the rest of our lives....but we can still be apart of music, still have fun, and still contribute.....

 

All that said, I would rather run sound for Nickelback, and play for fun, then kill myself playing gigs in bars, busting my ass...it's about ego and not being selfish.

 

If I read your thread correctly, your coming to grips with your capabilities...and if I knew you better, I would say you have some talents somewhere in there, off the stage that could really help a real gigging national act....if not your own.

[KeysBear]

Wow, amazing story. I might as well tell my own which I'm sure is posted here somewhere back four years ago and may explain why I'm being courteous but not bending over backwards in my present situation.

 

I joined this band in 2004, started out with keyboards and when our third bass player left I took over playing keys bass. Since our main product was classic rock every week with about five shows a year as a Doors tribute the keys bass role was a natural progression. In September 2006 I had a heart attack and was forced to work my day job from home, rarely leaving the house except to go to doctor visits. The band kept plugging along without keyboards and using a locally well known bass guitarist. The lead singer played guitar, there was also a lead guitarist, the drummer, and the new bass player. I couldn't go to the gigs even to watch. They had a Doors show scheduled and a local pro had told them he could handle the keyboards but gave up after two weeks.

 

In January the band got an audition at a huge club an hour and a half away that we'd been trying to get into for months. The bass player was booked so I hauled myself up to the audition where it turned out our lead guitarist didn't show either since there was no money paid for the two sets. It was my first show since the hospital. I played keys and keys bass, did all the solo work that the lead guitar would usually play, and we got three bookings out of it. My daughter went with me to move my equipment to the stage and put it back in the car.

 

But I didn't have the strength to do it again. I told them I could play keys but we needed to keep the bass player if I returned. It was just too much work for a man who could barely push a shopping cart at the grocery store. We used to be a five piece and I figured we could go back to that format for awhile. They refused a five way split, I got cut out, and they played the gigs that I auditioned for with the bass player.

 

Over the next few months I played two major Doors shows with them, one at a large downtown amphitheater and later at the Seafood festival. I had agreed to keep doing Doors shows only but after a payment dispute I quit entirely because I was still upset over the audition that had brought me no money. I had turned the other cheek, but they couldn't be trusted.

 

I didn't play with them again until 2009 when I was shocked to get their call for a Doors show which later turned into weekly classic rock gigs. I'm playing keys and keys bass with no tiredness or complications. Now the drummer who refused to bend when I was sick is the guy who has the diabetes condition. Karma indeed, but I'm trying to be nice.

[tim_7string]

From my very first band on, I have always been the guy who "gets things done." What I mean by that is if the bass player didn't show (or passes out! ), and I'm the keyboard player, I'll flick on the split keyboard option and play some keys bass. If I'm not the lead singer, but his voice is shot, I'll sing a few songs to get us through the night. If people are lost in the middle of a song we barely or never rehearsed before (but I know it), I'm usually the guy that will help guide them through it properly, with the right chord changes.

 

Some would call that ego, others might call that incredible humility. I guess it depends on how you look at it. I've never been afraid to pitch in where needed in a group, so my role in a band has always been a bit fluid. Because of that, I think people don't really know WHAT I am!

 

I relate to guys like Paul McCartney and John Paul Jones because they did what it took as multi-instrumentalists in their bands. Paul did everything from playing piano when his guitar fell apart in their Hamburg days, to playing drums when they couldn't find a drummer for a while, to eventually switching to bass guitar when their bassist decided to leave the band. This continued into recordings, adding lead guitar parts to several notable Beatles tunes, including a George Harrison song (Taxman)! How ironic is that, playing lead on the lead guitarist's song? And JPJ was so adept at keyboards of all kinds, bass guitar, mandolin, all kinds of stuff, yet unlike Paul, he didn't sing so he was just the quiet man who helped make Led Zeppelin sound HUGE.

 

It's a selfless role you're describing here, Grant, and I think you're handling it exceptionally well. Since you're treating the band as a business and are one of the original people from the beginning, I can see how you can adjust a bit. It would be very difficult to leave that organization I think and it's great that you all managed to work out a way to keep you involved that's fair to everyone.

 

As for me, now that I passed my late 30s and I'm starting my 40s, I've decided to no longer be "the guy in the back." I do fill-in gigs as a lead guitarist and I'm the frontman (singer/guitarist) for my own trio. I'll probably always be either No. 1 (frontman) or No. 2 (lead guitarist) in any band I play in the future. I've had enough of being the unsung hero.

 

But who knows? Anything is possible. I just might do it again if the situation presented itself in the right way...

[tim_7string]

 

But I didn't have the strength to do it again. I told them I could play keys but we needed to keep the bass player if I returned. It was just too much work for a man who could barely push a shopping cart at the grocery store. We used to be a five piece and I figured we could go back to that format for awhile. They refused a five way split, I got cut out, and they played the gigs that I auditioned for with the bass player. Over the next few months I played two major Doors shows with them, one at a large downtown amphitheater and later at the Seafood festival. I had agreed to keep doing Doors shows only but after a payment dispute I quit entirely because I was still upset over the audition that had brought me no money. I had turned the other cheek, but they couldn't be trusted.

 

 

As far as I'm concerned, if you were in a Doors tribute band, you should have been paid as one of the principle players, not be dicked around with little or no money as some sort of add-on! Ray Manzarek's keyboards are essential to the Doors sound, especially in a tribute to their music, so I find that really odd that they acted as if you were an extra in that situation by sticking with a bassist instead.

[rhat]

 

As far as I'm concerned, if you were in a Doors tribute band, you should have been paid as one of the principle players, not be dicked around with little or no money as some sort of add-on! Ray Manzarek's keyboards are essential to the Doors sound, especially in a tribute to their music, so I find that really odd that they acted as if you were an extra in that situation by sticking with a bassist instead.

 

 

 

Its not about him and the money ,, its about him and the band and the guys in the band. guys do get to the point where they will do it for the music , or the songwriters music. the older you get , the less money plays into why you do what you do. hard to explain to guys that are not quite old enough to actually be in that situation.

[tim_7string]

I wouldn't characterize myself as a mercenary at all, but if someone is getting a much larger piece of the pie and they're trying to get me for little to nothing, that will make me upset more than the actual amount of what we're all getting as a group.

 

I'm in it for the music, the fun and I don't mind some compensation along the way. I just want it to be a fair split is all.

 

I'm still somewhat bristling at the bass player getting an extra 10% in our trio, especially since I never did that to him when I originally hired him and the drummer for a gig back in February. I split the money equally 3 ways and expected the same. I guess everyone has their own ideas about what they will work for or not work for in a band situation.

[KeysBear]

Part of the payment dispute was that they asked me to do all the classic rock shows that the bass player refused because they didn't pay enough. They allowed him to cherry pick the high paid gigs then wanted me to play the occasional gas money and bar tab gigs. I knew they needed me for the Doors shows and I didn't appreciate being treated like an outsider the rest of the time. I felt I had been a big part of building the band up from playing beer pubs to being a local headliner. They were riding on that reputation. I told them to stick it.

[tim_7string]

Wow, that's even worse than I thought! Good for you to leave 'em.

[rhat]

 

Part of the payment dispute was that they asked me to do all the classic rock shows that the bass player refused because they didn't pay enough. They allowed him to cherry pick the high paid gigs then wanted me to play the occasional gas money and bar tab gigs. I knew they needed me for the Doors shows and I didn't appreciate being treated like an outsider the rest of the time. I felt I had been a big part of building the band up from playing beer pubs to being a local headliner. They were riding on that reputation. I told them to stick it.

 

 

sounds like you were dealing with a tough situation.... I can see both sides of it. i would guess leaving was your best choice ,, since you really could not deliver in a full capacity and being a part time outsider was not really gonna work for you. Hopfully you will get to a point physically where you can get back to being a full time member in different band.

[tim_7string]

I know you like playing Devil's Advocate, rhat, but do you really think you'd be fine with being treated as a disposable and lesser member if you were in the same situation?

 

I guess you have a different mindset than I do. I would be absolutely livid to find out I was basically switching off with a bass player who was allowed to play the good-paying gigs only and I got the {censored}-paying gigs, especially if I'm hauling more gear and actually doing TWO jobs (bass parts and piano/organ parts).

 

But then, I'm the kind of guy that played a one-nighter in a dive with my main band rather than a two-nighter in a casino that pays nearly three times as much with a band I did some fill-ins with, because the one-nighter in the dive was on the books weeks in advance and the casino gig just came up all of a sudden. That's the kind of guy I am. Most musicians around here wouldn't think twice to jump ship for the bigger paying gig.

[KeysBear]

Sounds like wheresgrant3 had some give and take and compromise with his fellow bandmates. I did become healthy again and they eventually called me back full time. As I said, now the drummer is the less healthy one and I'm trying to be understanding.

[rhat]

 

I know you like playing Devil's Advocate, rhat, but do you really think you'd be fine with being treated as a disposable and lesser member if you were in the same situation? I guess you have a different mindset than I do. I would be absolutely livid to find out I was basically switching off with a bass player who was allowed to play the good-paying gigs only and I got the {censored}-paying gigs, especially if I'm hauling more gear and actually doing TWO jobs (bass parts and piano/organ parts). But then, I'm the kind of guy that played a one-nighter in a dive with my main band rather than a two-nighter in a casino that pays nearly three times as much with a band I did some fill-ins with, because the one-nighter in the dive was on the books weeks in advance and the casino gig just came up all of a sudden. That's the kind of guy I am. Most musicians around here wouldn't think twice to jump ship for the bigger paying gig.

 

 

 

I am a realist who came up in a career that was a pretty rough racket. the reality is that the op is disposable. He has health issues that keeps him from being a full time heavy hitter in a band. i dont blame him at all for pulling chocks... and I can see why the band is doing what they are doing. They are in a tight situation ,,,, they have history with the OP , yet they also have a show to run. My feeling is that they are trying to push the OP out of the band so it will continue with players that are hitting on all 8 cylinders. does it suck ,, yea it sucks ,, but music is a rough racket. Like i said ,, i can see both sides of this.

[TrickyBoy]

But then, I'm the kind of guy that played a one-nighter in a dive with my main band rather than a two-nighter in a casino that pays nearly three times as much with a band I did some fill-ins with, because the one-nighter in the dive was on the books weeks in advance and the casino gig just came up all of a sudden. That's the kind of guy I am. Most musicians around here wouldn't think twice to jump ship for the bigger paying gig.

 

That's called being a professional.

[rhat]

That's called being a professional.

 

Its called taking care of business.. and yea its how a pro does it. Hell I dropped a long term sub seat in a horn band the summer before last when i started having rotator cuff issues that I knew might get in the way of me meeting the expectations of the gig sched this band had. Trust me it was a good deal for me ,, well over 200dollar spits and that was on the low paying jobs. I felt obligated to step out so that they could run their second choice back in and give him time to ramp up the set list. I was 75 percent through their set list in two weeks ,, and still was willing to step out. The last thing they needed was a keyboard guy with a gimped up shoulder and a full sched. You have to take care of business and in this situation me stepping out was what this band needed. I made the decision to pull out early enough for them to get the seat covered. I dont know if i would call it professional,, it was just what needed to be done for the good of the band. I am still friends with these guys and i would guess not putting them in a position of having a kehyboard player come up lame in the middle of the season is why.

[tim_7string]

I felt obligated to step out so that they could run their second choice back in and give him time to ramp up the set list. I was 75 percent through their set list in two weeks ,, and still was willing to step out. The last thing they needed was a keyboard guy with a gimped up shoulder and a full sched. You have to take care of business and in this situation me stepping out was what this band needed. I made the decision to pull out early enough for them to get the seat covered. I dont know if i would call it professional,, it was just what needed to be done for the good of the band. I am still friends with these guys and i would guess not putting them in a position of having a kehyboard player come up lame in the middle of the season is why.

 

Well, when you put it that way, I can definitely see your point. You're saying that KeysBear should have stepped aside because he was still recovering from his heart attack? You're probably right, but it was his call to want to keep playing and the band should have let him know that they wanted someone who was at 100% if it bothered them that much. As you said, two sides to the story.

 

I once played a gig where I was very, very sick (about two years ago). I felt it was important for me to be there so that the band had some sort of consistency with me as the lead guitarist instead of "who's going to play with Bob this week?" Because I was so sick (very bad cold, bordering on bronchitis), I couldn't sing lead and could barely sing harmony, but I could still play guitar. This pissed off my bandleader, probably because one of the main reasons he likes to work with me (other than I am dependable) is that I can sing harmony parts well.

 

After the gig, his girlfriend told me that he would have preferred I had cancelled instead and told him to find someone else for the week, due to my being sick. So, my loyalty and professionalism was apparently misguided. He would have rather had someone who could play and possibly sing harmony, but the band would have sounded a lot differently than if I were there. Oh well, I tried.

[rhat]

Thanks, man! Well, when you put it that way, I can definitely see your point. You're saying that KeysBear should have stepped aside because he was still recovering from his heart attack? You're probably right, but it was his call to want to keep playing and the band should have let him know that they wanted someone who was at 100% if it bothered them that much. As you said, two sides to the story. I once played a gig where I was very, very sick (about two years ago). I felt it was important for me to be there so that the band had some sort of consistency with me as the lead guitarist instead of "who's going to play with Bob this week?" Because I was so sick (very bad cold, bordering on bronchitis), I couldn't sing lead and could barely sing harmony, but I could still play guitar. This pissed off my bandleader, probably because one of the main reasons he likes to work with me (other than I am dependable) is that I can sing harmony parts well. After the gig, his girlfriend told me that he would have preferred I had cancelled instead and told him to find someone else for the week, due to my being sick. So, my loyalty and professionalism was apparently misguided. He would have rather had someone who could play and possibly sing harmony, but the band would have sounded a lot differently than if I were there. Oh well, I tried.

 

I am not making any judgments on what keybear should have done. Its his call. as for playing when you are not up to par,, I played prolly 18 gigs last winter with some major gouty arthritis in my hands. I was a hurting puppy, but all I had to do was play keys, and with that band I could be MIA since they are a two guitar band. The horn band had alot of heavy key driven material.... so i pulled out. every situation is different.