Rule #1 of being a woman in music (Post Gig Rant)

[Branwyn]

It does not matter how good you are. It does not matter how much God given talent you have. It does not matter how many Off-Broadway credits you have under your belt, even in the middle of suburban nowheresville, GA. It does not matter how many thousands of dollars and hours you put into private voice lessons, vocal training and techniques, stage presence, relating to your audience, practice, etc. It does not matter how many times the a few sweet, musically educated, purist members of the audience walk up to you later and tell you how beautiful your voice is and how they'd like to hear you sing alot more.

 

If there is one girl, just one girl who walks on stage who is tall, thin, and gorgeous, who happens to be able to barely carry a tune in a bucket...talent, training, experience, and genuine musical ability don't mean a goddamn thing, and you (that is, I) might as well carry your (my) short, fat, talented, extensively trained and experienced ass home. Stereotypical hottness will massively trump talent evey time.

 

I had a {censored}ty night

[WowieZowie]

Great post.

 

Seriously. Very important stuff.

 

To me, your post says, "why do I care?" Or, "what is music even for?"

 

Hopefully, you care about you.

 

You are pretty much the only one who can care about you. I am not trying to be some psycho-babbling fool. It's just true. For me anyway.

 

If you ain't doing it for you, then, .... the road is gonna be painful.

 

 

I have seen what you are talking about. I have also seen people stack the house with family and friends. It would not have mattered who I was. Johnny was the best. Mommy said so. And the whole family quickly clapped in agreement.

 

All I can say is just keep riding along. Do what makes you happy. Sing songs that make you (almost) cry.

 

Do it the best that you can, every time that you can.

 

Notice that I have not said, "it will all work out." Because this is what life is. Ups, downs, ins and outs. At the end of the day, you decide if you did well.

 

By the way, if you wonder why a crowd loves what they love, then you need to pay better attention to the crowd. That is what they are. You can't change them. That is like wondering why a "pointer" dog points. Why does a cat say "meow?" Why does a tree bark? Etc. Cause that is what they do. And you need to be able to differentiate. And if you know what kind of crowd they are, and they act that way, and you still feel like crap, then it is on you. Come on, you seem smart. Don't let these fools get ya. This is your deal. Not theirs.

[micwalt]

Sorry to hear about your night.

If it makes you feel any better, the vast majority of the stereotypically hot chicks won't have any real success either.

At the end of the day, you do it (music) because you must... end of story.

[Jersey Jack]

Wow, sorry to hear about your bad night. But remember the case of Mama Cass and Michelle Phillips. Michelle was of course extremely hot , but ultimately Cass blew her away in terms of talent and (I would argue) popularity.

 

A large personality can overcome quite a bit.

[smorgdonkey]

Just for the record...it is the same with males too...many great looking 'artists' are much less talented (and some hardly talented at all) than their uglier duckling 'brethern' but get the attention anyway. It all started years ago...

 

I heard you on the wireless back in Fifty Two

Lying awake intent at tuning in on you.

If I was young it didn't stop you coming through.

 

Oh-a oh

 

They took the credit for your second symphony.

Rewritten by machine and new technology,

and now I understand the problems you can see.

 

Oh-a oh

 

I met your children

Oh-a oh

 

What did you tell them?

Video killed the radio star.

Video killed the radio star.

 

Pictures came and broke your heart.

Oh-a-a-a oh

 

And now we meet in an abandoned studio.

We hear the playback and it seems so long ago.

And you remember the jingles used to go.

 

Oh-a oh

 

You were the first one.

Oh-a oh

 

You were the last one.

 

Video killed the radio star.

Video killed the radio star.

In my mind and in my car, we can't rewind we've gone to far

Oh-a-aho oh,

Oh-a-aho oh

 

Video killed the radio star.

Video killed the radio star.

 

In my mind and in my car, we can't rewind we've gone to far.

Pictures came and broke your heart, put the blame on VTR.

 

You are a radio star.

You are a radio star.

Video killed the radio star.

[cherri]

Why are other people up on stage with you? Are you hosting an open mic? Karaoke?

 

Everyone has their assets and their liabilities. That chick with the great bod and average voice may be just as stressed out as you, over her vocal shortcomings.

 

Spending your mental energy speculating about industry unfairness is a huge waste. It's an unfair industry.

 

Plenty of artists have mediocre looks but use their stage presence, clothing and personal style, and charisma to enhance their appearance. Females are up against a tougher curve in this regard. You can complain about a double standard, or adapt to the reality of the business you're in.

 

Be aware of your physical pros and cons. Play up the best you've got and forget the rest. Confidence goes way farther than hair gel and push up bras.

 

Ultimately, the important factor isn't to be the most attractive. It's to be the most memorable.

[Lee Flier]

Yeah, I can relate to both Branwyn and Cherri. The phenomenon Branwyn describes is all too common, and extremely frustrating. I try not to dwell on it much, and usually succeed in that - I'm doing this for me, and my bandmates, more than anyone. And I do get a decent amount of recognition. But it's hard to help being pissed off when you see somebody get recognition they haven't earned.

 

Sorry to hear you had a tough night, Bran. I've had similar ones, but maybe your next gig will be better... I'm feeling pretty good today, having been chatted up by a couple of cute guys in their early 20's after yesterday's gig.

[Lee Flier]

 

Why are other people up on stage with you? Are you hosting an open mic? Karaoke?

 

 

Yeah, I was wondering that too. Music isn't a competition and I don't participate in anything that smacks of that. When my band is onstage, it's our stage and we don't often share it. Certainly when I go to see other bands I like, I don't want to see a bunch of other people get up and play with them - as a fan, I'm there to see THEM, not a trainwreck of unrehearsed "guests." Nothing is more of a buzzkill IMO than an otherwise good band who invites a bunch of their drunk friends to sit in with them.

 

There are some types of bands who are kinda suited to that sort of thing, and their friends are all good musicians, but in general, it's not a good idea.

[WowieZowie]

 

Just for the record...it is the same with males too...many great looking 'artists' are much less talented (and some hardly talented at all) than their uglier duckling 'brethern' but get the attention anyway. It all started years ago... I heard you on the wireless back in Fifty Two Lying awake intent at tuning in on you. If I was young it didn't stop you coming through. Video killed the radio star.

 

 

Hey Smorg, have you heard the Presidents of the USA do this tune? Quite cool.

[bustaplz]

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

 

 

My favorite female singer. No offense to her but she isn't attractive to me physically. Don't give up because of something so shallow. If you do what you do well, you'll find people that love it.

[Bajazz]

Be the best you can. I went from being dead boring and mediocre on stage to skilled and a bit fun. Experience + trying out new things is good, don't stress. I lost some weight and bought some nice clothes, which made at least me feel better. Then I gained it again.... :-)

 

The best way to evolve is to step outside your comfort zone. Do something scary and fun each gig. Having carisma onstage beats looks, and often talent too.

[NoirAbattoir]

Don't let it get you down. The musicians know better, at least.

[Consume]

I think you need to listen to Candye Kane, with the song "You Need a Great Big Woman" (and yes I like big women, it tends to be my personal preference. )

 

A Great song, with great lyrics.

[zildjian@consol]

Those poeple who judge you by your looks arent real music fans. I'd rather have talent than looks any day.I'm an ugly old drummer.

[search now]

It does not matter how good you are. It does not matter how much God given talent you have. It does not matter how many Off-Broadway credits you have under your belt, even in the middle of suburban nowheresville, GA. It does not matter how many thousands of dollars and hours you put into private voice lessons, vocal training and techniques, stage presence, relating to your audience, practice, etc. It does not matter how many times the a few sweet, musically educated, purist members of the audience walk up to you later and tell you how beautiful your voice is and how they'd like to hear you sing alot more. If there is one girl, just one girl who walks on stage who is tall, thin, and gorgeous, who happens to be able to barely carry a tune in a bucket...talent, training, experience, and genuine musical ability don't mean a goddamn thing, and you (that is, I) might as well carry your (my) short, fat, talented, extensively trained and experienced ass home. Stereotypical hottness will massively trump talent evey time. I had a {censored}ty night

 

 

sex and hype have always sold but in todays world, modern sophisticated audiences want fast food and rap. Trying to let it go and not giving in to the hate , the hatred of ignorance is impossible ,Ive tried.Valium helps.

[bdemon]

Then you have plenty of "ugly" rock stars who seem to be doing well. Mick Jagger? Bob Dylan?

 

Trying to think of some new examples...

[WynnD]

Hazel Miller shoots that theory to hell. She's middle-aged overweight black woman. Great voice, singing style and handles the audience so well. She's a local figure in Denver. Opened for Earth, Wind and Fire at the Red Rocks concert I attended. (Was wondering if that was her when I was approaching the amphitheater.) Great musicians keep showing up in her band. The woman is a powerhouse.

 

Now Diane Krall. I have to keep reminding myself that the great piano playing is all her. (She is so good.) She's too good looking for that to come to me naturally. She's also known as a great jazz singer, but piano is really her forte. (Pun intended. It's a piano-forte.) Listening to her doesn't require a video.

[search now]

 

Hazel Miller shoots that theory to hell. She's middle-aged overweight black woman. Great voice, singing style and handles the audience so well. She's a local figure in Denver. Opened for Earth, Wind and Fire at the Red Rocks concert I attended. (Was wondering if that was her when I was approaching the amphitheater.) Great musicians keep showing up in her band. The woman is a powerhouse. Now Diane Krall. I have to keep reminding myself that the great piano playing is all her. (She is so good.) She's too good looking for that to come to me naturally. She's also known as a great jazz singer, but piano is really her forte. (Pun intended. It's a piano-forte.) Listening to her doesn't require a video.

 

 

I think 99% of the populace dont care about the music you are talking about. Its 2008.Theres also Eva Cassidy , I love her voice.She was a great singer and backed herself very skillfully on guitar She died a nobody. Its good to be optimistic but what I see is not a world that is open friendly and supportive of music. It is one that uses a bastardised version of it to make money and crucifies those who go against the grain and create beauty....just my 2 cents

[BigVoiceTenor]

 

Having carisma onstage beats looks, and often talent too.

 

 

I'd have to agree here with Bajazz.

 

Carisma on stage is huge.

 

Presense isn't just a certain "look"...it's an often "undescribable characteristic" of someone who captures the audience with both talent and personality.

 

Just keep giving them "both barrels" full tilt. The audience WILL remember you, not the "looker".

 

Good luck and keep the faith!

[ToneGrail]

I think there is a HUGE double standard when it comes to women vs men. I know plenty of ugly highly successful male artists (Kim Thayil, Kerry King, Joey Ramone, Motorhead Lemmy, etc). Off hand, I can't think of one successful female artist who isn't considered attractive by mass media standards.

[careful now]

 

I think there is a HUGE double standard when it comes to women vs men. I know plenty of ugly highly successful male artists (Kim Thayil, Kerry King, Joey Ramone, Motorhead Lemmy, etc). Off hand, I can't think of one successful female artist who isn't considered attractive by mass media standards.

 

 

janis joplin

[Quarterwave]

It's sad but true, video did kill the radio star. I think it was Billy Joel that said, "before music video, the message was "listen to me", now WITH music videos, the message is "look at me" " - much to the detriment of the industry and music overall - esp. for women.

 

Although having said that, I think that as a performer you do need to look your best, and that fashion and appearance are a part of being a performer - much in the same way that people taste food with their eyes first.

 

So, if part of your job needs you to look good, then why not get into the gym or get some help with fashion (or whatever) so that you can really blow posers away when the opportunity arises.

 

Getting into decent shape just takes a bit of discipline and 30 minutes in the gym 3-4 days a week.... time which is usually easy to arrange if you are serious (I work full time, have a 50 mile round trip to work, and play up to 4 nights per week).

[WowieZowie]

In the world, and especially in the USA, there is a big focus on having the perfect body. I would imagine that everyone would agree on this.

 

So, from the get go, this issue that the original poster brought impacts all walks of life.

 

If we then look to our focus, here in this forum, being a performer that is, we see that it effects us more than most professions, hobbies, etc.

 

So, it is going to be there, and it is not going away too soon.

 

What can you do about it? Some have said, "just be who you are."

 

Some have said, "work within the rules, understand those rules, and try not to let them hurt who you are."

 

It is tough for all of us. I am getting older. I can't sing some songs anymore because they just don't feel right. And, people treat me much differently now. I have to accept the changes that occur. If I want to keep performing, that is. Otherwise, the whole thing will get more and more difficult.

 

It is a very important topic to me. I think that we all wrestle with it in some form every day.

 

By the way, there was a time when it was more acceptable to be older, or not as pretty, and this was even if you were being filmed. Ella Fitzgerald was pretty heavy most of her days. She was always treated like a goddess, on and off film. Nat King Cole had severe acne pock marks. He was very self conscious about it. And yet, he had his own tv program at a time when african Americans were being lynched publically in certain regions in the south of the US. People loved them because they were soo good. And, as I have stated, the times were different. People are very insecure about looks now a days. Implants, and .... well you name it, all to feel more perfect.

 

In the end, we all have to decide what matters to us.