Unions

[YeahDoIt]

I searched for "union" and found nothing interesting. Do musicians still have to join a union to play music in some places? I know nothing about musicians' unions.

[SpaceNorman]

I've been gigging for 30+ years, never joined a union and have never once been asked about my union membership status by anybody actually involved in the music game. I know there's a musicians union in my area - and have heard from a few of the better horn players that I've brought on as hired guns that they were union members (either currently or more often the case - formerly). My impression is that union membership might be a requirement for orchestra gigs, sub work with legitimate touring acts, etc. However, at the level that weekend warriors muck around at - the union is clearly a non-factor.

[jwlussow]

I am a member of Local 10-208. I rarely get asked with my power trio but I also play jazz trombone and that requires the card. The trio has been busted a few times while loading in for wedding gigs at higher end hotels. The Palmer House would not allow any gear brought in without the card. My wife

[musicmanmu]

At one time, my band and I were members of the local musician's union in my area. It helped us score one gig - opening up for a DJ at a high school prom

 

I know bands used to be the popular entertainment at proms, but not these days. Those kids just stared at us like "WTF?" until our hour long set was over.

 

After that, there was never really any work for us as a pop/rock band. So after a year, we quit and haven't joined back.

 

From what I understand, back in the 70s, it was almost a necessity to be in a union. Union reps would (and this is second hand from local musicians who were active during that time) literally block the doors to the bar/club until you produced your union card.

 

Today, no bar owners care whether you're union or not. Considering the fact that union members have to enforce a contract, it seems that not being in a union could be more advantageous, as a lot of bar owners these days don't want to sign contracts.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[kmart]

Jake: My name is Jacob Stein. I'm from the American Federation of Music. I've been sent to see if you gentlemen are carrying your permits.

Tucker McElroy: Our what?

Jake: Your union cards. May I see your cards please?

Tucker McElroy: Well, suppose we ain't got no union cards and go in there and start playin' anyway? Whatcha gonna do about that? You gonna stop us, Stein? Ha. You're gonna look pretty funny tryin' to eat corn on the cob with no {censored}in' teeth!

[jeff42]

Jake: My name is Jacob Stein. I'm from the American Federation of Music. I've been sent to see if you gentlemen are carrying your permits. Tucker McElroy: Our what? Jake: Your union cards. May I see your cards please? Tucker McElroy: Well, suppose we ain't got no union cards and go in there and start playin' anyway? Whatcha gonna do about that? You gonna stop us, Stein? Ha. You're gonna look pretty funny tryin' to eat corn on the cob with no {censored}in' teeth!

 

That would be close to the truth nowadays.

 

I remember when I was about 19 playing with a band there was a VERY old man who was from the union and would come around to every gig and collect money from the non-union people. The older guys in the band used to make me and the bassist deal with this guy every time! It was like hazing! This old man would NOT leave us alone! I remember giving this dude the last few bucks in my pocket.

 

I know our bassist was a member in the late 70s early 80s but I don't know anyone in the union right now or if there is one in my neck of the woods.

[SpaceNorman]

I am a member of Local 10-208. I rarely get asked with my power trio but I also play jazz trombone and that requires the card. The trio has been busted a few times while loading in for wedding gigs at higher end hotels. The Palmer House would not allow any gear brought in without the card. My wife

[kmart]

 

Just curious ... how long ago was it that you were challenged? ... and were you playing a gig that was booked by the venue itself? My wedding band has played a good number of the better hotels and banquet venues in area over the years (several which I know have employees that are represented by unions). We've NEVER been challenged regarding union membership status. I wonder if that's because Michigan is a "right to work" state .... or because our contract was with the bridal party and not the venue itself?

 

 

 

I would suspect locale plays a MAJOR factor.

In and around Chicago, you DO NOT go against the Union's interests, obviously.

EVER.

 

In my experience, though, it's not CFM (Chicago Federation of Musicians) who can make life somewhat interesting (Simply because the venues I've played have never been Union houses): it's IATSE...

 

I remember running a box truck full of rented backline gear to a festival at a Chicago racetrack, parking, opening the rear door and starting to run cases down the ramp when half a dozen BIG burly biker looking dudes started yelling and hustling towards me and my partner. We thought we were going to get jumped, but once they got to us, they simply said "You can't touch those cases", and the now nice IATSE stagehenads proceeded to unload the entire truck full of flight cases and cart them to side stage for us.

[jwlussow]

 

Just curious ... how long ago was it that you were challenged? ... and were you playing a gig that was booked by the venue itself? My wedding band has played a good number of the better hotels and banquet venues in area over the years (several which I know have employees that are represented by unions). We've NEVER been challenged regarding union membership status. I wonder if that's because Michigan is a "right to work" state .... or because our contract was with the bridal party and not the venue itself?

 

 

That wedding was probably 10 years ago. In fact, that might have been just about the last time I needed to show the card. I still do trombone gigs but either there is no hassle or the director handles everything. I do know that it was a necessary evil when I first joined the union in 1983. Probably not so much anymore.

 

Now I wonder if the band would have been hassled if they didn

[SpaceNorman]

....I remember running a box truck full of rented backline gear to a festival at a Chicago racetrack, parking, opening the rear door and starting to run cases down the ramp when half a dozen BIG burly biker looking dudes started yelling and hustling towards me and my partner. We thought we were going to get jumped, but once they got to us, they simply said "You can't touch those cases", and the now nice IATSE stagehenads proceeded to unload the entire truck full of flight cases and cart them to side stage for us.

 

I can only wish that a half dozen BIG burly biker types would run up my truck and schlepp my stuff side stage for me !!!! Especially when they're being paid by somebody else to do it!!!!

[Flogger59]

Around here (Montreal) AFM is the big one, the majority of members play with the symphony, and the balance is the TV people.

[kmart]

I can only wish that a half dozen BIG burly biker types would run up my truck and schlepp my stuff side stage for me !!!! Especially when they're being paid by somebody else to do it!!!!

 

Exactly; that was the real 'work' part of our day, especially when it all had to be pushed UP ramps to the stage which was 20-30 feet above ground: driving there and back is easy enough, un-casing gear isn't that hard, especially when the artist's techs are doing all the final adjustments, etc., so these guys definitely did the real grunt work.

 

Aside from navigating traffic, we spent maybe 30 minutes worth of real work on each end of that day, and the rest of our time hanging out with Kid Rock's band and watching STP from the side of the stage.

[pickinatit]

 

I've been gigging for 30+ years, never joined a union and have never once been asked about my union membership status by anybody actually involved in the music game. I know there's a musicians union in my area - and have heard from a few of the better horn players that I've brought on as hired guns that they were union members (either currently or more often the case - formerly). My impression is that union membership might be a requirement for orchestra gigs, sub work with legitimate touring acts, etc. However, at the level that weekend warriors muck around at - the union is clearly a non-factor.

 

 

I think Union vs. non-Union used to be a bigger deal then it is now-a-days. In the late 60's - early 70's when I was playing wedding/bullroast/banquet/firehouse dinner type gigs there were Event/Catering Halls that wouldn't book a non-union band and they were the bigger reception, better paying type gigs.

If the union bands (which were some of the best bands around back them, at least in the Baltimore area found out a hall allowed a non-union band to play there they would boycott that venue for a period of time and people that wanted one of those bands for their event would take their business elsewhere. Does that kind of stuff still go on anywhere out there ?

[pickinatit]

I am a member of Local 10-208. I rarely get asked with my power trio but I also play jazz trombone and that requires the card. The trio has been busted a few times while loading in for wedding gigs at higher end hotels. The Palmer House would not allow any gear brought in without the card. My wife

[Blackbird 13]

I am a member of Local 10-208. I rarely get asked with my power trio but I also play jazz trombone and that requires the card. The trio has been busted a few times while loading in for wedding gigs at higher end hotels. The Palmer House would not allow any gear brought in without the card. My wife

[Zon5string]

 

Jake: My name is Jacob Stein. I'm from the American Federation of Music. I've been sent to see if you gentlemen are carrying your permits. Tucker McElroy: Our what? Jake: Your union cards. May I see your cards please? Tucker McElroy: Well, suppose we ain't got no union cards and go in there and start playin' anyway? Whatcha gonna do about that? You gonna stop us, Stein? Ha. You're gonna look pretty funny tryin' to eat corn on the cob with no {censored}in' teeth!

 

 

We'll uh.. we'll talk to Bob.

[kmart]

 

I don't get it? Did your wife's cousin sign something saying she's only hire a union-member band at some point, or agree that only union stagehands would unload the truck? Maybe something she had to sign when booking the hotel? I just can't see how it would end well if someone got behind MY truck with MY gear while I'm going to a job that I've contracted with a private individual and told me not to touch it...

 

 

The HOTEL in the example is a Union house; any work on premises falls under their view.

[MartinC]

It's weird out here. the major hotels and buildings downtown are union. I own a non union flooring company, and I can't do flooring work in many of those buildings, but I can stroll right in and play guitar. I guess the musicians union is not concerned or able to deal with small fish out here. I'm pretty sure if you get a gig in a broadway type show, or get hired by the symphony, you have to join.

[jwlussow]

 

I don't get it? Did your wife's cousin sign something saying she's only hire a union-member band at some point, or agree that only union stagehands would unload the truck? Maybe something she had to sign when booking the hotel? I just can't see how it would end well if someone got behind MY truck with MY gear while I'm going to a job that I've contracted with a private individual and told me not to touch it...

 

 

 

Not from Chicago, Huh? Things are different here. If it is a union house practically nothing can be done without their support. If they refuse to move your gear it ain

[Blackbird 13]

Not from Chicago, Huh? Things are different here. If it is a union house practically nothing can be done without their support. If they refuse to move your gear it ain

[jwlussow]

 

Nah.. not from Chicago. I just don't see how your situation could be legal. The bride didn't have an agreement with the union.. unless she specifically had something in a contract with the hall that said '.. must abide by union rules", or something to that effect..

 

 

The hotel has the agreement with the union. I

[Jealousblues]

really they wouldnt let you load in?

 

I can understand unions especially in trades and stuff but to stop a wedding band from loading into a wedding is kinda BS.

Not a knock on unions or anything

[Jealousblues]

what does/did the musicians union DO for you back in the day when you had to be a member to play places?

 

for regular bar band guys like us, not symphony guys ect