Members HarpNinjaMike Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 I was approached by someone about a possible music project, and instantly thought of getting feedback from this board (which is a compliment, lol). Said musician wants to start a side-project from current successful cover band. He wants to do a blues-rock sort of thing (all top tier musicians in their 30's). He is unsure of how to go about marketing the group or what sort of image to create for it (and I think even who he wants to target for an audience). His initial thoughts are to sort of market backwards: ...recording project....no gigs to start. only if positive reaction from recording is there EVER any gigs. This keeps things realistic. if things take off, great....no band, only hired studio musicians....perfect the album....perfect performances....market online as new entity. I don't think this is the best route to being a successful local draw NOT playing typical covers. I am interested in your take and suggestions as it pertains to creating a semi-successful blues-rock band. Specifically, what sort of niche to fill and how to best present the band to clubs. As for now, I think he is pretty open in the overall vibe and cover choices. To start, I think it would be cool to get a good promo video taken care of and try to capture some of the Black Keys-sorta crossover vibe (essentially accessible hillcountry blues). I am really just thinking out loud, but it would be fun to be with a decent band with this guy. I have connections for gigs and promo beyond our home area, but see the need to get a good local DRAW. To me, that is what it comes down to. On stage, we would kill it and be very entertaining to crowds, BUT we have to get to stages first. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 I suppose it could be done, but in me experience (so take it for what it's worth) my best songs I've recorded were ones I played live for a year or more. Also, in my experience, clubs are less and less dependent on studio albums to decide to hire you. I just spoke to an agent last summer who told me about a band he hired based on their CD and when they showed up, half the guys weren't on it, their vocals were awful and they only did a fraction of the songs on the CD since the main writer had left. They want live recordings, preferably at gigs, and an increasing number want live video with good sound. And lastly, it is very very hard for good players to maintain interest in a project that isn't playing out from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urca Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 And lastly, it is very very hard for good players to maintain interest in a project that isn't playing out from the beginning. That sums it up for me. Show me some gigs (paying gigs) and I'll work with ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted January 13, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 13, 2012 And lastly, it is very very hard for good players to maintain interest in a project that isn't playing out from the beginning. With a project like this I could see recording with one set of musicians, getting the music out there without a band, and then forming one and gigging if the reaction is positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 Who is he planning on getting reaction to the recording from? Doesn't sound like much fun to me, but then I like playing live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rangefinder Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 With a project like this I could see recording with one set of musicians, getting the music out there without a band, and then forming one and gigging if the reaction is positive. I'm having trouble understanding this approach. How exactly will the music ever be successful, if not via a fan base? And how do you get a fan base if you don't have a band? OP, why not do what 12354187601345 other bands have done: form a band with like-minded people, write some music that you think is cool, find gigs wherever you can, refine the songs that get the best response, make an album, and go from there? I mean, if you can't even do the first step in the process (form a band) at the beginning, why should those people magically appear later, when they've had no say in the process up to that point, and no sense of ownership or commitment? Even if it somehow works, it just seems like a recipe for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 With a project like this I could see recording with one set of musicians, getting the music out there without a band, and then forming one and gigging if the reaction is positive. Do they have the coin to pay guys to record who won't be performing the stuff live? And who is going to be providing the positive feed back to get them to want to book gigs? FB friends? Reverb Nation hits? How much positive feedback translates into booking? I don't know- I've seen this approach work well with established names- the album drops and they tour to support it- but I have never seen it done this way for an unknown quantity, and I suspect there's a reason for it. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they are not the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wardjames Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 It seems to me you're trying the approach of make music, throw it on the web, and hope it goes viral. I think this worked with a few people with myspace sites and youtube posts in the infancy of those mediums, but nowadays? Man it's all about the live show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted January 13, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 13, 2012 I'm having trouble understanding this approach. How exactly will the music ever be successful, if not via a fan base? And how do you get a fan base if you don't have a band? If you have connections and good material, you can (if things go well) attract airplay, fans- and possibly label interest- without gigging, then form a band to play the material. I'm not saying its the best way for everything, but it's hardly rare. I've witnessed a number of bands do this. One for example was a duo who wrote and played everything themselves. Their demos were strong enough to get them signed to a small-but-cool local label, which thought the demos we good enough to polish and release as an album. The album subsequently got good local airplay and CD sales (this was like 2005 so people still bought CD!) and they formed a six-piece live band and started gigging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yeah, I wouldn't want to record a song I haven't lived with for a while. The big-name bands who drop an album and then tour generally play those songs on stage, too--they slip them in during sound check, do surprise shows at bars, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vermoulian Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's hardly unusual for somebody to put together a project to record his songs. It sounds like that's what this is: the guy has some songs he wants to record; he's going to find or hire some guys to play them in the studio for him, and then he's going to release the results. It doesn't sound like he's really trying to form a band, in the sense of an ongoing creative/performing entity. I'd say, if you like him and/or the music, go for it: it could be fun and you could end up with some good recordings of yourself playing. I wouldn't expect much to happen beyond that, but who knows---maybe he'll get sufficient positive feedback that he'll want to play out, or maybe he'll get excited enough about hearing his stuff being played by a band that he'll want to keep that going. One thing I would say: inasmuch as this sounds like a vanity project, and the odds against it generating more in the way of money or exposure are high . . . if he's paying "studio musicians" to play on the recordings, don't do it yourself for free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rangefinder Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 If you have connections and good material, you can (if things go well) attract airplay, fans- and possibly label interest- without gigging, then form a band to play the material. I'm not saying its the best way for everything, but it's hardly rare. I've witnessed a number of bands do this. One for example was a duo who wrote and played everything themselves. Their demos were strong enough to get them signed to a small-but-cool local label, which thought the demos we good enough to polish and release as an album. The album subsequently got good local airplay and CD sales (this was like 2005 so people still bought CD!) and they formed a six-piece live band and started gigging. Yeah, I can see that. In fact, I'm hoping to do something similar with my original music. But I think that approach works best for a person/team with a very clear vision and the knowledge/chops to lay down very strong songs on their own. It doesn't sound like OP's buddy is in that type of situation, if he "kinda wants to do a blues-rock sort of thing" as OP said, and isn't too sure about the details beyond that. In that case, I have to think that you should find some like-minded people to jam with, hope the creative process kicks in, start to build a fan base, and take it from there (as I described above) with everybody having a stake in the band's success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 If you have connections and good material, you can (if things go well) attract airplay, fans- and possibly label interest- without gigging, then form a band to play the material. I'm not saying its the best way for everything, but it's hardly rare. I've witnessed a number of bands do this. One for example was a duo who wrote and played everything themselves. Their demos were strong enough to get them signed to a small-but-cool local label, which thought the demos we good enough to polish and release as an album. The album subsequently got good local airplay and CD sales (this was like 2005 so people still bought CD!) and they formed a six-piece live band and started gigging. Were they a blues act? Because, also in my experience, that ship sailed a long time ago. Local festivals are getting headliners for 1500-3000 dollars that commanded 6-10 k at big festivals just a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted January 13, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 13, 2012 Were they a blues act? Because, also in my experience, that ship sailed a long time ago. Local festivals are getting headliners for 1500-3000 dollars that commanded 6-10 k at big festivals just a few years ago. Well yeah, it likely works better for some genres than others depending on what's popular. But it sounds from the OP like the guy isn't especially concerned about the possibility that this will a "studio-only" project. This tends to be a very live performance-oriented forum but for a lot of people that isn't really a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted January 14, 2012 Members Share Posted January 14, 2012 That type of scenario has never worked for me. It sounds like the guy wants a vanity project as an outlet/release from his cover band gig. And I get that! If you're into it then by all means go for it, just don't have a lot of expectations. In other words just think of it as a fun pastime band... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted January 14, 2012 Members Share Posted January 14, 2012 This tends to be a very live performance-oriented forum but for a lot of people that isn't really a priority. It's hard to get "Backstage" w/out having performed . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted January 14, 2012 Members Share Posted January 14, 2012 That type of scenario has never worked for me. It sounds like the guy wants a vanity project as an outlet/release from his cover band gig. And I get that! If you're into it then by all means go for it, just don't have a lot of expectations. In other words just think of it as a fun pastime band... most bands are bascially fun pastime deals anyway. As for doing recordings first and putting the band together second ,, its pretty common in songwriter circles. Songwriter goes into the studio with the session guys ,,, they whack out the CD and the road band does the live shows with the songwriter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HarpNinjaMike Posted January 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 14, 2012 Thanks for all the great insight. I posted the situation here as I think his ultimate goal is to do live shows. IMO, it would seem that the time before gigging would be better spent on the business model and creating a top-tier live show. I was in a band with this guy before, and while he as always been a great musician, I think his cover band success has taught him the importance of focusing on your audience as opposed to just trying to be an awesome guitar player. I also think that the regional and national success of a few local blues-rock bands that we at one time competed with has taught us both a lot. I am trying to get some more detail out of him, but I think in his mind it is about creating the hype to get people interested. What are your thoughts on the following? 1. Pick a desired audience2. Decide on what we'd view as successful gigging - venues and festivals we want to get into3. Create an image4. Design a show around the image and emphasize creating moments for the audience 5. Put the start-up money into great promo (like video) as opposed to an album6. Start booking shows7. Use resources to provide constant recordings to our fan base but NOT worrying about an album One huge pro of working with this guy is he is connected to a ton of stud musicians and he has access to world class studio gear for pretty much nothing. I already have a full PA and the two of us can knock out 50+ tunes and over an hour of original music tomorrow (played and wrote together for 6+ years). Honestly, I'd take $75-100 a guy to do a four piece outfit. The coverband thing actually ended up being more work for me than playing bluesy stuff, and since my last serious project, I've had enough real-world changes to be content doing smaller and more fun gigs. ***I have nothing but love for coverbands and original bands, and that isn't the point here. It is just fronting a coverband doesn't always play to my strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rangefinder Posted January 14, 2012 Members Share Posted January 14, 2012 ^^^ The process as you've laid it out seems logical, but somewhat soulless/corporate. How about: 1.) Create some great music2.) Make a demo and video3.) Get gigs4.) Put on kick-ass shows5.) Do follow-up promotion I'm not sure it's any more complicated than that. The audience will take care of itself, if you do some basic things right. An album will happen when it's time for an album to happen. But it starts with the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted January 15, 2012 Members Share Posted January 15, 2012 I don't believe in perfection. So I'd have a problem with him from day one. (Perfection, a nice unachievable goal.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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