Members 992gnt Posted April 26, 2012 Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 Back story: My new band is a re-formed old band. Original drummer contacted the original singer and guitarist. Guitarist couldn't do it, so he recommended me and I brought along the bass player. Old band was together 2 years (singer with them for only 1), but that was 10 years ago. Same music style. Present: Drummer has a real prima donna complex. Fashionably late for practices, was totally against booking anything for less than a grand a night, when he is "done" at rehearsals, he gets up and leaves - right then and there, etc. This is (was?) his project, but at this point I've pretty much taken over as the band leader. He recently posted on fb that he is looking to start a side project, even though we all agreed in the beginning that this was to be our main focus, so that created some ripples. He is a good drummer, but has serious volume problems - so much so that I am worried about playing at some of the smaller venues we have booked more than once. 2 shows in to the bands re-birth, his MO is to show up last, sit down and play, and walk off the stage when done - leaving all the "work" to everyone else (first two shows were multi-band events, so he did not have a kit to break down). Anytime he is confronted about his attitude and any number of little issues that pop up (weekly now), he plays everything off and is fired up and ready to go. He is going through some personal stuff, but doesn't really vocalize any of that to the band, except to the singer. He is tightest with the singer, but even she is starting to get tired of the constant drama. So my concern is this, as most of you know my band is poised to carve out a nice piece of the local scene. I'm not sure how successful we will be in the long run with him behind the kit. It puts a strain on the entire band. I do not think he would leave us high and dry, but I could see myself or the bass player throwing down a "me or him" ultimatum down the road, not to mention his attitude rubbing club owners or even sound guys the wrong way. Now to be fair, I have only known him for 6 months. The singer tells me that's his personality, he's quiet, etc. But at what point do we start thinking seriously about finding a replacement? How do we keep continuity of our brand if we replace him? I want to like him, he's not a bad guy, but if I get one more response from him about a practice time question consisting of a message to "ask the singer", I'm gonna flip my lid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skybluegary Posted April 26, 2012 Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 Sounds like its time to look for a new drummer, seems like you're close to that conclusion yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members minn12 Posted April 26, 2012 Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 This seems like something that will only get worse in time, so if the drummer is causing this much dissension in the early stages, it may be better to make a change now. A drummer with 'serious volume problems' WILL cause you grief with bar owners and soundguys, can ruin your stage mix and cause you to lose re-bookings. Are there a lot of good drummers available in your area, or do you know any that could fit the bill? Sometimes it's better to have a player who may not be the BEST player, but rather is a team player and causes no drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimiv Posted April 26, 2012 Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 Sounds like its time to look for a new drummer, seems like you're close to that conclusion yourself. Maybe not. It could just be his personality. What is a red flag is the "side project" thing although drummers are notorious for being in more than one band. Is it affecting the band, or mostly you and you THINK the band feels the same. It is hard dealing with prima donnas, but if they are just in the annoying category, recognize the value of their talent and be patient. Sometimes, though when patience is not doing the trick, its time to find a new prima donna (hahahaha). If he is "tight" with the singer, be prepared for that fallout as well. That's why I wouldn't choose the nuclear option just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 992gnt Posted April 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 It's affecting the whole band. Very annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldGuitarPlayer Posted April 26, 2012 Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 Is he a good enough drummer in your mind to possibly keep him and try to solve his problems? Are his drumming chops worth the aggravation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 992gnt Posted April 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 Great chops, no dynamics. 11 all the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimiv Posted April 26, 2012 Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 Great chops, no dynamics. 11 all the time... Odd that he would have great chops, but no dynamics. That IS a problem. Just be ready for a potential problem with the singer when you replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 992gnt Posted April 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 The bigger issue is do we wait it out and see how things go, or replace before we get into the meat of our bookings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted April 26, 2012 Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 And you discussed this with the rest of the band? There is no band without drama, and there is no family without drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 992gnt Posted April 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 Tha bass player and I have talked about it quite a bit. I'm pretty sure the singer will go with the gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted April 26, 2012 Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 You could try Dr. Phil or have an intervention? If he's been playing that style for 10 years, that's a hard horse to break. I'm sure his defense is that he started the band. Bands are a bitch dude, sorry about your problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 992gnt Posted April 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 Band has been broken up for 10 years, during which he did not play out. Bands are a bitch, but they don't have to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted April 26, 2012 Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 The PR with the club owners and the sound guy is like a cancer cell, going to spread at the same rate. Band will not survive with a bad reputation or get called back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mstreck Posted April 26, 2012 Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 I've been in your situation more than once. IMO, you need everyone to be on the same page. Otherwise, these little problems are going to become larger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimiv Posted April 26, 2012 Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 Tha bass player and I have talked about it quite a bit. I'm pretty sure the singer will go with the gigs. You have to make sure the singer is onboard first. Then start sniffing around for drummers. You should probably have one as a sub anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldGuitarPlayer Posted April 26, 2012 Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 Great chops, no dynamics. 11 all the time... That is too bad. I know of this same problem in terms of no dynamics. Just from the little bit you have said I doubt he will change his technique. At this stage in my life I'd rather not have to put up with personality problems. I say start looking elsewhere for a drummer that is a little more dynamic and a lot less prima-donna? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ckcondon Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 I wonder how many times the guys in GNR said the same {censored} about Axl when they were playing clubs. Might work out, might not. Is this guy THAT good? If not, time to start looking. Life's too short to put up with assholes for no good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 Kinda sounds like there are still 2 bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sillypeoples Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 Imagine you have a steak in front of you, you like steak, but you don't want a heart attack...you notice the fat on the edge...pretend the fat is your drummer..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beatpoet Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 I can't say I've come across many drummers with attitudes like this guy. If it was the singer with all the problems I'd maybe wait and see how it pans out (they are the focal point of the band live at least), but drummers are at the back and I hate to say it, are mostly interchangeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 I would nip this in the bud, have a meeting and confront him or make a decision to get rid of this guy asap. The guy is a talent and he knows it. Right now he probably believes he is untouchable. It's his only ace. Make him put that card on the table and discard it. Otherwise this situation will get worse over time and not better. For the first five years we suffered thru a drummer that was incredibly talented. A known player on the scene. He was packaged, alpha male, testosterone and came with his own fanbase that bled into the band. He was also incredibly selfish, controlling and in the end almost destroyed the band. From the day I was rehired (I left for a year) my bass player whispered "we're getting rid of him". Four years later he was causing such extreme chaos that we literally cut him out of emails regarding band business. We had one email chain to discuss business, and another to interact with him. The week of my wedding, after we had just purchased a $10,000 van, my singer asked if I had $1000 in cash I could put forward to help buy the drummer's share out! It literally took us 2 years to finally fire him, largely because he was such an incredible talent on the kit. Everytime we were get to the brink, his spidey senses would go off and his behavior would be abruptly cooperative. He would be on his best behavior for the month. He was very agenda driven and would employ 'divide and conquer'... always playing the devil's advocate, putting forth his opinion on everything whether positive or negative... mostly negative, which was like an anchor on a band who wanted forward momentum. He had touring experience which led to his ugliest trait... he felt whatever room he was in he was a concert headliner and should be treated as such. Would yell, scream, at band bandmates, helpers, whoever to help him with his kit if his tom mic moved an inch or if his hi-hat came unglued. In the end, we didn't have to fire him, he sorta fired himself. Just when we thought he was as unbearable as could be, his personal life ran off a crazy cliff... suffice to say over the course of a summer he put himself in a corner where we were forced to give immediate notice (caught him in a lie) and where we had a replacement drummer waiting in the wings. I had known this guy for a more than a decade and for the first time in my life he was speechless. He knew he had {censored}ed up. We made him a decent cash offer on common property, which he refused (generous considering we were firing him). He went down without a fight... or so we thought. Then three months later our bass player received a summons for small claims court. The judge laughed when he said the band owed him $5000 (the full cost of his 5 year investment w/o any depreciation). The judge simply asked... "well why is the entire band not here... as I see it if anything owed this man would owe you 1 share.". He argued with the judge and the case was dismissed. Years later I recognize him as a loveable asshole (he did have some endearing qualities) who was one of the best musicians I ever played with, but is a cancer in social groups. He's in a few other bands and still a terrific drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FitchFY Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 Step 1: Band meeting with the drummer immediately before you book any more gigs. Declaritive statement needs to be made that he must change immediately and be a team player. Step 2: Wait for reaction. Step 3: If the words are anything besides "okay, I will," then get a new drummer. This guy is band poison. Oh, and apparently just a jerk in general. If there are drummers in your area, I'd just toss him either way. Bands are supposed to be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 Great chops, no dynamics. 11 all the time... And your SURE the guitar amps are not on 11 too? Take it from the drummers perspective, when we have a 100 watt 4 x 10 at the same height as our ears pointed directly at us on 11 NO accoustic drum will overcome that dynamic. Meanwhile the speakers are blaring at the guitar players knees and sounds great to them. Sorry had to examine the other side of the pancake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 He is a good drummer, but has serious volume problems Sorry, but if he can't control his volume and has no dynamics, then he's not a good drummer, any more than a bass player who can play Victor Wooten licks but not the songs would be. Being able to play an instrument well is not the same as being able to play in a band well. I just had this discussion with my last drummer who finally quit because he couldn't fit in the mix and was way louder than everyone else all the time. He was a great guy, played with me 18 years, and did fine with big stage shows, but clubs are getting smaller and the volume requirements are getting lower, and he just couldn't or wouldn't make the adjustment. Now I have a great guy, fine drummer who does studio work and teaches drums, but has an entire arsenal of brushes (steel and nylon), blastix, mallets, sticks, plus a ton of hand percussion, and will play whatever the gig calls for. Some guys see it as a challenge to overcome and some guys see it as a restriction on their ability. There is no right answer-everyone is different and guys play for different reasons. If your drummer doesn't like to play quietly, there's nothing wrong with that. But he needs to go find people who like playing loud and the venues to accommodate him. If you need a drummer to give you something else, you need to find one to do that. I know I got tired of being told to turn down in almost every club we played in, and it was always the drums that were too loud. I got tired of having to tell him, and the eye rolling and "screw those guys" attitude he would come back with, and the leaning up against the wall and just checking out he would do because he didn't like being told what to do. Now, he's playing in a power trio and I have a guy who does what I need him to do. Everyone is happy. We're still friends and talk to each other. It just wasn't a good fit anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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