Working With Agents- How much do you supply them to help them sell your band?

[wheresgrant3]

We've been working with an agent for several years to book out of state gigs and over the last year or so the relationship has been a bit frayed. His market has taken a tough turn in this economy and he's lost some big rooms. However we've heard over the years he's not mainiting the best relationship with bar owners and we suffer at times due to the weak roster he represents. Lately he's telling us to 'hang tight' and the reason we aren't getting bookings are because clubs want cheaper bands and we are a bit overpriced for his market with several new bands looking to play for less. He doesn't want to to bother us with $800 travel gigs, however we feel like he's not really selling us either. A handful of regional A-listers booked by other agents are still getting regular bookings for top pay.

 

So this weekend, after him stalling for several months on updates to get us into a room that's been around for more than a decade and just began to use agents to bring in bigger bands he calls us and says the owner's close to saying 'yes'... is there anything else we can provide him to help him close the deal.

 

We've already supplied a press kit.... With a press photo and accolades from events past.

 

We've already supplied our website... http://www.nutsinablender.com

 

We've already supplied video media channel with more than 4 hours worth of video... http://vimeo.com/channels/nutsinablender

 

We're sponsored by local radio, two local beer distrbutors and a National sponsorship with Jagermeister.

 

We've provided three references (one manager personally emailing on our behalf about our relationship to the venue)

 

We're the premier A-list band in our market and we've been repped by this agent in 5 states, for 6 years now.

 

Really... the manager needs more info to make a decision???? I should mention that this venue is only 45 miles from our homebase. We haven't approached this venue on our own out of respect to the agent who is trying to build bookings in this particular room. He's already booked in several bands that I have to imagine are around our asking price... and we're willing to work lower 1st time in IF the potential is there to increase pay over time. Last weekend this venue had a top agency act in the room and the band was paid more than $3000. We're asking half of that.

 

In six years this agent has never seen us perform in person... yet we've gotten nothing but positive feedback in the rooms he's booked us in. Soft calculation puts that at over 60+ gigs. Because we were out of state we've tended to get rooms he's 'testing' or rooms on the decline, with him frequently making excuses why we wouldn't be a fit in select A-rooms. Yet we've been feeling for the last 2-3 years he's been witholding opportunities from us to book in cheaper bands that are more dependent on him. When you go to this agent's website we are promoted as one of his top 5 marquee bands, yet as it stands we have two rooms which amount to less than 20% of our bookings. We feel like something has got to change in this relationship. If we part ways and go with a competitor there will surely be bad blood... however it's clear this guy has little interest in selling us in his market. If we have to make the trip to meet with the clubowner or help to close the deal over the phone or email then why are we paying a commission fee?

[TIMKEYS]

We've been working with an agent for several years to book out of state gigs and over the last year or so the relationship has been a bit frayed. His market has taken a tough turn in this economy and he's lost some big rooms. However we've heard over the years he's not mainiting the best relationship with bar owners and we suffer at times due to the weak roster he represents. Lately he's telling us to 'hang tight' and the reason we aren't getting bookings are because clubs want cheaper bands and we are a bit overpriced for his market with several new bands looking to play for less. He doesn't want to to bother us with $800 travel gigs, however we feel like he's not really selling us either. A handful of regional A-listers booked by other agents are still getting regular bookings for top pay. So this weekend, after him stalling for several months on updates to get us into a room that's been around for more than a decade and just began to use agents to bring in bigger bands he calls us and says the owner's close to saying 'yes'... is there anything else we can provide him to help him close the deal. We've already supplied a press kit.... With a press photo and accolades from events past. We've already supplied our website... http://www.nutsinablender.com We've already supplied video media channel with more than 4 hours worth of video... http://vimeo.com/channels/nutsinablender We're sponsored by local radio, two local beer distrbutors and a National sponsorship with Jagermeister . We've provided three references (one manager personally emailing on our behalf about our relationship to the venue) We're the premier A-list band in our market and we've been repped by this agent in 5 states, for 6 years now. Really... the manager needs more info to make a decision???? I should mention that this venue is only 45 miles from our homebase. We haven't approached this venue on our own out of respect to the agent who is trying to build bookings in this particular room. He's already booked in several bands that I have to imagine are around our asking price... and we're willing to work lower 1st time in IF the potential is there to increase pay over time. Last weekend this venue had a top agency act in the room and the band was paid more than $3000. We're asking half of that. In six years this agent has never seen us perform in person... yet we've gotten nothing but positive feedback in the rooms he's booked us in. Soft calculation puts that at over 60+ gigs. Because we were out of state we've tended to get rooms he's 'testing' or rooms on the decline, with him frequently making excuses why we wouldn't be a fit in select A-rooms. Yet we've been feeling for the last 2-3 years he's been witholding opportunities from us to book in cheaper bands that are more dependent on him. When you go to this agent's website we are promoted as one of his top 5 marquee bands, yet as it stands we have two rooms which amount to less than 20% of our bookings. We feel like something has got to change in this relationship. If we part ways and go with a competitor there will surely be bad blood... however it's clear this guy has little interest in selling us in his market. If we have to make the trip to meet with the clubowner or help to close the deal over the phone or email then why are we paying a commission fee?

 

 

First and formost, you have to understand that he works for himself and not you. It sounds like he feels it is to his advantage to be booking other bands that may fit into the venues budget better than your band does. I dont think there is anything sinister going on. Its just business.

[wheresgrant3]

First and formost, you have to understand that he works for himself and not you. It sounds like he feels it is to his advantage to be booking other bands that may fit into the venues budget better than your band does. I dont think there is anything sinister going on. Its just business.

 

 

Completely understood... but you won't retain good talent unless you are partnered with them. As a good agent there has to be a win-win with your better acts or all you'll be left with are those you are working for instead of the acts that can work for you. The majority of bands he books are dependent on his bookings. We are not. 80% of our bookings are independent.

 

None of these rooms are agent-only. As I've said we've kept the muzzle on out of respect. Starting to wonder though if that is causing us more harm than good. And I don't mind taking road trips. At least you'll get the rejection or blow off in person rather than via third party.

[wardjames]

I think you're venting more than asking for advice Grant. You know you need to move on and get a new agent.

 

The good news is...what's the worst that can happen? You're already set in your local market. If you guys are going to go out of state you've got to get an agent who can get you into those bigger rooms that are going to pay you more than you make at home.

[TIMKEYS]

Completely understood... but you won't retain good talent unless you are partnered with them. As a good agent there has to be a win-win with your better acts or all you'll be left with are those you are working for instead of the acts that can work for you. The majority of bands he books are dependent on his bookings. We are not. 80% of our bookings are independent . None of these rooms are agent-only. As I've said we've kept the muzzle on out of respect. Starting to wonder though if that is causing us more harm than good. And I don't mind taking road trips. At least you'll get the rejection or blow off in person rather than via third party.

 

 

SO what kind of partner do you think he thinks you guy are, since he only has 20 percent of your business? I can see why he is doing what he is doing , and i would guess its best for his bottom line. Like i said its business.

[wheresgrant3]

SO what kind of partner do you think he thinks you guy are, since he only has 20 percent of your business? I can see why he is doing what he is doing , and i would guess its best for his bottom line. Like i said its business.

 

 

Well he could have more if he were able to offer decent rooms at decent pay. His lately competition seems able to do this. If we were only worth a small percentage of his bookings then why would he list us as one of his top five bands. It's because I imagine we his roster look pretty good right? There's value right there.

 

I would imagine he should think we're a pretty good partner.... after all we approached him about club bookings first rather than working with other agents or approaching the club ourselves.

[TIMKEYS]

Well he could have more if he were able to offer decent rooms at decent pay. His lately competition seems able to do this. If we were only worth a small percentage of his bookings then why would he list us as one of his top five bands. It's because I imagine we his roster look pretty good right? There's value right there. I would imagine he should think we're a pretty good partner.... after all we approached him about club bookings in his state rather than working with other agents or approaching the club ourselves.

 

 

Its hard to tell if he could be making more money by booking you guys more. I would think his best money would be from signing exlusive rights to book and having bands that a high talent to cost ratio to present to his clients to increase their bottom line. He may well be up against a cover charge war and needs to cut costs to the venues. Lots of things could be going on. It might be time for another agent or it might be time to start booking yourself 100 percent of the time. I know most agents would take care of their exlusive acts before a 20/80 band. You guys may have priced yourself out of the sweet spot on his roster when it comes to bang for the buck.

[wheresgrant3]

I think you're venting more than asking for advice Grant. You know you need to move on and get a new agent. The good news is...what's the worst that can happen? You're already set in your local market. If you guys are going to go out of state you've got to get an agent who can get you into those bigger rooms that are going to pay you more than you make at home.

 

 

You're right... just venting. I would think that with all that is provided we are an easy sale. We're an independent band that markets the {censored} out of themselves. How many bands does he represent that have just a Facebook page and poorly recorded audio demo. I've checked... alot.

 

This room will be the tipping point. If he isn't able to get us an initial booking it may be time to part ways or at least look to diversify our representation.

[wheresgrant3]

 

Its hard to tell if he could be making more money by booking you guys more. I would think his best money would be from signing exlusive rights to book and having bands that a high talent to cost ratio to present to his clients to increase their bottom line. He may well be up against a cover charge war and needs to cut costs to the venues. Lots of things could be going on. It might be time for another agent or it might be time to start booking yourself 100 percent of the time.

 

 

It's very possible... and I would hold none of those against him if I believed them to be 100% true.

 

As for us booking ourselves 100% that is never a problem. We have more rooms than we have space on the calendar. The point of using agents for work in other markets is so we don't burn out an area and we can help feed the fanbase/following with fresh faces.

[Potts]

I'd say it's time to book that room yourself. You know what the talent is in your area and whether or not you're sitting toward the top. I just went through the same scenario. My agent was down to about 10% of my bookings. I just kept filling the dates on my own. I was hinting that I wasn't happy and I got a call out of the blue for a regular weekly Thursday gig and a couple weeks later he booked me a "once a month" gig through December. I think it's time to put a little pressure on.

 

I look at it this way...I'm playing 15 dates a month. I must be doing something right and there is no reason I shouldn't be able to get in to a venue that has the type of music I play. You guys sound like you completely have your {censored} together. I've seen your videos and you guys are talented. I'd put the pressure on and make a phone call to the venue. I'm guessing the agent cant work that room for some reason.

[J.Paul]

Completely understood... but you won't retain good talent unless you are partnered with them. As a good agent there has to be a win-win with your better acts or all you'll be left with are those you are working for instead of the acts that can work for you. The majority of bands he books are dependent on his bookings. We are not. 80% of our bookings are independent. None of these rooms are agent-only. As I've said we've kept the muzzle on out of respect. Starting to wonder though if that is causing us more harm than good. And I don't mind taking road trips. At least you'll get the rejection or blow off in person rather than via third party.

 

It sounds like you're doing well in keeping your cool with him until you can justify going with someone else.

 

Have you considered that this agent is working for the clubs and not for the bands?

If this is true it makes you a widget and not a partner.

 

....still not quite sure how to tell the difference between an agent that works for the bands and an agent that works for the clubs. Anyone got some insight?

[kmart]

 

....still not quite sure how to tell the difference between an agent that works for the bands and an agent that works for the clubs. Anyone got some insight?

 

 

IME, it becomes very easy to tell once you get a potential booking in place; the contract paperwork, for one, will basically tell you who's interests are at stake for sure if you put any effort into reading between the lines.

[OldGuitarPlayer]

The "agents" job is to get you paying gigs. Not make excuses or jerk you around. Find a new "agent".

 

just sayin'..

[TIMKEYS]

 

It sounds like you're doing well in keeping your cool with him until you can justify going with someone else. Have you considered that this agent is working for the clubs and not for the bands? If this is true it makes you a widget and not a partner. ....still not quite sure how to tell the difference between an agent that works for the bands and an agent that works for the clubs. Anyone got some insight?

 

 

In any situation you have to follow the money. The clubs are the ones with the checkbooks and the stage. With most middle men ,, the are really working for themselves telling everyone on both sides what they want to hear.

[wardjames]

You're right... just venting. I would think that with all that is provided we are an easy sale. We're an independent band that markets the {censored} out of themselves. How many bands does he represent that have just a Facebook page and poorly recorded audio demo. I've checked... alot. This room will be the tipping point. If he isn't able to get us an initial booking it may be time to part ways or at least look to diversify our representation.

 

Yeah, I think he's full of it with regards to needing more promo. I mean...JHC...most clubs are looking to make sure you can entertain a packed house they provide...all your videos show that...what else could they need? A promo shot of you guys walking along some railroad tracks holding music stands?

 

Out of curiousity...what would prevent you from working with other agents in addition to him. Is there some sort of express or implied exclusivity?

[wheresgrant3]

 

Yeah, I think he's full of it with regards to needing more promo. I mean...JHC...most clubs are looking to make sure you can entertain a packed house they provide...all your videos show that...what else could they need? A promo shot of you guys walking along some railroad tracks holding music stands? Out of curiousity...what would prevent you from working with other agents in addition to him. Is there some sort of express or implied exclusivity?

 

 

No exclusivity. As I've said, we've stayed out of loyalty. He was just the first agent we began working with 6 years ago and prior to this we've had a good relationship. For 4-5 years the ship was sailing smoothly. We were booked in 2-3 rooms every 2-3 rooms every 8-12 weeks. Which is why we're wondering why he's treating us like rookies, stalling, making excuses. It would be one thing if our show has declined or we had lineup changes we couldn't recover from. But we've gotten better over the years. In my mind we're more marketable then ever... and our own bookings prove that. In 6 years he's never made the effort to see the show. He lives 90 minutes from one of our best rooms. That bugs me a little. How can you sell something when you aren't 100% knowledgeable on the product. The fact he didn't really know we had so much video tells me he's not doing his homework.

 

I'd like to think that we make him look pretty good. He brings in a band from out of state that delivers and impresses the bar owners. Keeps an audience past 2am. As I said there are bands earning twice our guarantee. Someone had to sell the idea of booking those bands. Once we get into a room we always get terrific feedback. these rooms are 2-3 hours away. We haven't felt that the market is as bad as he says it is. As Tim indicated there's probably lower hanging fruit that's easier for him to plug in. If that is indeed the case he should have any objections when we approach competing agents or the venues ourselves.

[wardjames]

 

No exclusivity. As I've said, we've stayed out of loyalty. He was just the first agent we began working with 6 years ago and prior to this we've had a good relationship. For 4-5 years the ship was sailing smoothly. We were booked in 2-3 rooms every 2-3 rooms every 8-12 weeks. Which is why we're wondering why he's treating us like rookies, stalling, making excuses. It would be one thing if our show has declined or we had lineup changes we couldn't recover from. But we've gotten better over the years. In my mind we're more marketable then ever... and our own bookings prove that. In 6 years he's never made the effort to see the show. He lives 90 minutes from one of our best rooms. That bugs me a little. How can you sell something when you aren't 100% knowledgeable on the product. The fact he didn't really know we had so much video tells me he's not doing his homework. I'd like to think that we make him look pretty good. He brings in a band from out of state that delivers and impresses the bar owners. Keeps an audience past 2am. As I said there are bands earning twice our guarantee. Someone had to sell the idea of booking those bands. Once we get into a room we always get terrific feedback. these rooms are 2-3 hours away. We haven't felt that the market is as bad as he says it is. As Tim indicated there's probably lower hanging fruit that's easier for him to plug in. If that is indeed the case he should have any objections when we approach competing agents or the venues ourselves.

 

 

What it sounds like to me, on the outside looking in, is that you've just outgrown him as an agent. It worked for awhile, but now you're in need of more. It's like a small business owner who outgrows their CPA and hires a large firm because their business is growing. I get that you want to be loyal, but at some point, you've got to move upstream with your agent the way you did with your show.