Set lists: anyone here ever not use one..... or just use a master list?

[musicchic]

Anyone ever tried or dont use a set list at gigs? I have a master list with one of my bands that consists of about 200 songs organized by tempo. I'm tempted to do a gig with just that list.

[John Ellis]

I've made lists for nearly every show I've ever done.

 

And not stuck to it one single time

[SeniorBlues]

I have to wonder how many of you have been in situations where someone called a song and counted it off before you could make a necessary setup change . . . . or how many times did the song get counted off without confirming that everyone heard what was called. That happened to me multiple times last night. . . . Seven piece; two guys I'd never played with.

[kmart]

No.

 

In general, lists across the vast majority of my playing.

 

For the primary band, we're trying to make sure we deliver a specific flow to the show, and make sure NOT to end up with issues because we forgot to play this song or that one, or had too many bangers early on in the set, etc. Never mind the fact that we're running backing tracks and a MIDI light show, so yeah, it's very much plotted out ahead of time. We always have the option of going off list, but for the most part, I like putting more thought into which songs go where and why.

[SeniorBlues]

 

No. In general, lists across the vast majority of my playing. For the primary band, we're trying to make sure we deliver a specific flow to the show, and make sure NOT to end up with issues because we forgot to play this song or that one, or had too many bangers early on in the set, etc. Never mind the fact that we're running backing tracks and a MIDI light show, so yeah, it's very much plotted out ahead of time. We always have the option of going off list, but for the most part, I like putting more thought into which songs go where and why.

 

 

Even without the tracks and coordinated light show, I agree with this. Isn't someone who claims to be reading the crowd just as likely to be calling something off the top of his head? Keeping the rest of the band in the dark is not conducive to set flow and, frankly, confident, anxiety-free playing.

[jw10]

 

I've made lists for nearly every show I've ever done. And not stuck to it one single time

 

 

This. We usually print up a setlist of about forty or so songs and have at the bottom a list of about 20 "Others." We end up never sticking to the list. For example, there are some gigs where seed-sublime would not go so well, especially if it's mostly an older crowd. Same goes for california Gurls. Oh and when we get requests, we make changes too.

[wades_keys]

The old country band I play in doesn't use set lists but I don't recommend this approach.

[wades_keys]

 

Even without the tracks and coordinated light show, I agree with this. Isn't someone who claims to be reading the crowd just as likely to be calling something off the top of his head? Keeping the rest of the band in the dark is not conducive to set flow and, frankly, confident, anxiety-free playing.

 

Do it enough times and you either die of a heart attack or it gets easy. LOL. Ya oughtta see these old cats I play with in Prime Time Band. Wouldn't know a setlist if it fell out of a tree but there ain't no stress going on up there: these guys have been playing that way since I was in diapers LOL.

 

I keep telling em I don't know what the hell I'm doing but they put up with me anyway probably because I don't stress out! Actually only half joking! It CAN be stressful to roll blind like that: a couple of weeks ago a guest singer sounded so bad on a tune we switched it up a (fourth actually: oops!) in the middle of the song and I swear the whole band didn't miss a lick: 3 guitars bass and fiddle - "we're going to G (1, 2, 3) G" from the D chord which was the I in the original key! That's how these cats roll and it's real smooth and easy and all by numbers! When we play with Rich on lead he'll hold up his fingers real quick to give me numbers on complicated tunes! Still don't have a good signal for the flat 7 but I'll get one worked out with him next time we play together.

[TIMKEYS]

 

I have to wonder how many of you have been in situations where someone called a song and counted it off before you could make a necessary setup change . . . . or how many times did the song get counted off without confirming that everyone heard what was called. That happened to me multiple times last night. . . . Seven piece; two guys I'd never played with.

 

 

we never use a set list. Everything is live fire. He calls key changed sometimes after a song has started. He might say this is in G and hit a song cold that the band has never played. I have played so many shows like this , it seems normal lol.

[wades_keys]

we never use a set list. Everything is live fire. He calls key changed sometimes after a song has started. He might say this is in G and hit a song cold that the band has never played. I have played so many shows like this , it seems normal lol.

You and me ought to start the "bring it and wing it" club up on here LOL.

 

Hell I just hit an open mic this wednesday and wound up playing a whole set of tunes live fire with the house band, PLUS having to deal with them trying to hire me right in front of their bass player.

 

Now I enjoy the challenge but I ain't into that ruthless {censored} so they can take that on up the road! but i'll be back around probably this week or next and we'll do it again for as long as they want me up there on that stage. Wasn't no old country either: rock and roll like "Tie Your Mother Down", "Sweet Emotion" and the like.

 

Hell I wanted to do "Sweet Child of Mine" but the guitarist didn't know it.

 

Weaksauce.

 

But a funny moment was when they asked: "Do you know smoke on the water" and I said: "what key?". He gave me the funniest look ever, like, "are you sure" but I played that mother{censored}er to the end and even hit the octave fills during the outro. I think funny sometimes. I hear chords as numbers. And that's a good thing cuz I can roll with several hundred tunes in rock and country ready to play no problem.

[TIMKEYS]

You and me ought to start the "bring it and wing it" club up on here LOL. Hell I just hit an open mic this wednesday and wound up playing a whole set of tunes live fire with the house band, PLUS having to deal with them trying to hire me right in front of their bass player. Now I enjoy the challenge but I ain't into that ruthless {censored} so they can take that on up the road! but i'll be back around probably this week or next and we'll do it again for as long as they want me up there on that stage. Wasn't no old country either: rock and roll like "Tie Your Mother Down", "Sweet Emotion" and the like.

 

Thats how our backing band started. We started out as the starting line up for a jam night. The deal started in the summer and when I got down in the fall a friend who was playing lead called me up and said what are you doing on sunday ,, I said nothing ,, he said good you got a gig load in at 7. the rest is history. Now its a band.

[wades_keys]

If you're gonna roll with no set list, consider this - which is my opinion but it's based on playing "live fire" gigs with laid back old dudes that have been doing this type of deal for probably 50 years or more.

 

 

For mellow music that laid back non-stress attitude is EXACTLY what helps set the vibe for the band and the audience. Nobody wants to hear "changes in latitude" and look up there and see {censored}ing woody allen all neurotic and worried about {censored}. They wanna see laid back cats smiling and going with the flow!

 

So, if you can't be laid back and you're gonna stress about no set list: DON"T DO IT!

 

Of course it should go without saying that you should be musically solid and not playing sour notes and jive rhythms!

[wades_keys]

Just to clarify my earlier post. Rich only held up his fingers when I missed a change to the minor 2nd in a song. So the next time around he throws up two fingers. By that time I had it sussed anyway but he knew I didn't hit the change and he tossed me the number. So it's not like I'm up there "following" or lagging behind on stuff! Just every once in a while it might get hairy for a note or two I guess. But I've got a few more gigs under my belt with those guys so it's gotten a little easier.

 

And on that same song, just to maybe give some insight into the mindset: Rich couldn't remember the key to play it in! But I knew it was in "D" just from listening to it before so I told him and boy, he hit all those changes COLD. And it was a lot of minor 6, minor 2 and even a flat 7 sub going on, along with a descending walkdown on bass. We hit all of that, cold. Ain't too hard when it's by the numbers and you got guys with ears and balls. LOL. Or I reckon it's balls. Who knows what it is? Sure is fun though and that's why I do this thing.

 

I'm sure some of you all are thinking: man, they must be standing around up there forever. Nah. Actually all of this happens in less than a second most times.

[CliffordN]

Some folks should be musicians, and some folks just wannabe? I have worked with quite a few folks who get all tangled up when you want to change keys before a song starts, and quite a few more who are good with changing right now... The coordination of it all requires that everyone is paying attention, a quality I have seen lacking more frequently!

[SeniorBlues]

"'This Masquerade' in Fm . . . . 1, 2, 3, 4, . . . ."

 

edit: I picked this because it was assigned for a rehearsal . . . with about 12 hours notice. Still . . . I found the time to work up the changes so I wouldn't be flying blind. I'm assuming you're all familiar with some version of the song. Here are a couple youtube clips you might enjoy listening to in the context of this discussion:

 

[video=youtube;OxeQPo58epE]

 

[video=youtube;Yp8gr05o-co]

 

 

the original . . . although the "hit" and more common style of playing it is by George Benson.

 

[video=youtube;6-a_5JdyLhg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-a_5JdyLhg

[SpaceNorman]

I've worked with set lists ... and worked without out 'em. The most common approach is to start with a set list - and then adjust it / call audibles on the fly. The more you "wing it" in terms of set list - the more important the following factors become:

 

 

Does the guy who's calling the tunes have the

IT

that is needed to do the job well. First and foremost, does he read the crowd well - and does he have the "big picture" perspective that's needed to manage a 40-45 song night? Nothing worse than having the "leader" call the bands

best

25 tunes in a row ... and hit the 4th set with nothing but "tween-er" and filler material left on the shelf.

 

 

 

Can he "multitask" effectively - i.e., think about and select the next tune (taking all the things that need to be considered such as spreading the singing load around, timing of quitar changes and/or musicians switching instruments, etc) - and then effectively communicate it to all his bandmates - without fumbling whatever song the band is playing at moment?

 

 

 

Does the band communicate effectively to

everybody

on stage? In one of my projects - the guy who calls the songs is on the opposite side of stage from me. He has a tendency to pick the tune in his head ... start making the rig adjustments

he

needs for the next tune ... and

then

telling the guy next to him (who in turn does the same damn thing!) There are occasions that I'm sitting out the intro - because the "next song" info didn't make it to my side of the stage before the drummer started the count.

 

If a band considering working without setlists struggles with any of the above - it's not going to be pretty. It goes without saying that the more gigging a band does - the freshing everything is in everybody's mind. Bands that play every Friday and Saturday night - are alot crisper in terms of remembering rig settings, remembering intros and song tempos, etc. Bands that play 1x a month ... maybe not so much ... and need to the structure of a set list to improve the odds of moving efficiently from song to song.

[StratGuy22]

We sometimes make set lists. Other times we throw old set lists on the stage and then pick and choose.

 

[stratotastic]

We take sort of a compromise approach. We have our songs mostly arranged in blocks of 3-5 tunes. The blocks all share some sort of theme: tempo, style, opportunity for crowd silliness, or just sound good together for any reason. Going into the gig, the blocks are arranged based on what we'd expect from an average night, with additional blocks waiting in reserve. Once we get through each block (every 15-20 min or so) we do a quick scan and decide if we should go on to the next block as planned, or switch to another one.

 

We've found this to be a great compromise between having the flexibility to change things up on the fly depending on how the night is going, but also not having to stress over constantly worrying about what to play next and being sure the entire band is ready to go each time.

 

Earlier in the night the blocks usually stay as planned, but once we get into the 2nd and 3rd set, things tend to change up a little more.

[dan88z]

One band- absolutely use a list, timed out to the minute. Other band- have used a set list maybe twice in 20 years.

[jwlussow]

We use setlist that are well thought out for a smooth flow of music and very little dead air. I've seen too many bands that use the master list and have a good minute of dead air between every single song. Very unprofessional. There is probably a happy medium where a basic setlist is used but audibles can be called at certain points.

[backtoblue]

99% of our gigs are without a set list. On the rare occasion we do a showcase-type show of mostly originals, then we'll go with the set list. Our singer is great at reading a crowd and keeping a flow going, so it works out pretty well for us. Very little dead air.

[delaware dave]

In the one band i'm in we use a set list. In the other band I'd give up my right nut just to see a set list or a master list. Guitar player pulls songs out of his ass every gig then looks like a horses ass because he f's up the words, arrangement or lead....

[wheresgrant3]

In this band nope. That's because we play less than 30% of the songs to completion. Songs are grouped into medleys so just by the nature we present song material makes it a rough road to quarterback material.

 

Last night we played two long sets totaling 2hrs and 35 minutes of music. During that time we played more than 60 songs and had less than 2 minutes of dead air. Another reason why we don't drive without a roadmap. It leads to two many pauses and hand gestures, misinterpretations, miscommunications. We will quarterback the night and make changes based on crowd reaction. Maybe pull one song and replace it with something else not on menu that show. For the most part we stick with the game plan .

[TIMKEYS]

In the one band i'm in we use a set list. In the other band I'd give up my right nut just to see a set list or a master list . Guitar player pulls songs out of his ass every gig then looks like a horses ass because he f's up the words, arrangement or lead....

 

Our bass player wanted to see the master list. the band leader handed it to my wife... she counted 550 songs on the front burner list. The band leader said the back burner list is about that big too. Sometimes its just best to go with the flow and not ask lol.

[wardjames]

Two thoughts...

 

1. Our band plays with a setlist, which we (now) meet together between sets to modify. I used to try to call out audibles on the fly, but I feel not that the input of my bandmates in a controlled environment leads to better decision making. 5 minutes after each set to agree on what the crowd will like to hear next yields the best results for us.

 

2. Everyone should spend some time in a band that flies by the seat of its pants. It's great practice for musicianship in general. You're probably never going to get to A club level doing it this way, but it will be useful for the future. I learned alot from doing jam sessions with western swing guys where everything was off the cuff like this.