Question for guys in original bands...

[Chicken Monkey]

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SLScott86 wrote:

Get some fives. That can't be harder than doing an EP. 

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 That's funny.  There are other draws to the EP (not least of which is that the local music awards' short-form category is really under-populated, so EPs increase our odds of becoming an "award-winning band").  I'm just wondering if getting the $5 back is enough of an incentive to get people to buy the second album.

We've looked into the credit card scanner, but it doesn't really fit into our format.  We're all using our smartphones for setlists or interstitial music in between sets.  If we get to playing shows where we can routinely set up a merch table, it'd make more sense for us.

[SLScott86]

You know if they're buying something from you, I think $5 is into, "why the hell not?" range. The extra EP wouldn't interest me much personally. But the DMAs raise a very interesting point.

It's one of those tough things to figure out, because I always want to apply my own habits and interests to the general public, who may very well see things differently. But if I'm at your merch table, I would buy $15 2 album bundle if there was one, or one album if there wasn't. And then of course that might not bother you if you miss out on $4 profit for the chance to get $8 profit half as often.

Oh, merch.

[Lee Knight]

Seriously excellent posts Mr. Knobs.

[Lee Knight]

There are ways to get those details and still master at a fairly high RMS value. A lot of that happens at the mix stage and even before that at the arrangement stage. It's all a trade-off. The truth is commercial CDs are mastered at a very high level. To ignore that creates a situation where your CD sounds dull and lifeless because of its lower volume. The best commercial CDs, or really what I mean is, the ones that are mastered the best obviously use great mastering engineers.

We are not hiring those guys, or at least I know I'm not. But some of the tricks to make your mixes sound loud and open are pretty simple. Think for a second on how Queen's We Will Rock You sounds. Because it is so sparse everything can be big and loud. And while that is an extreme example it makes the point. Mixes that are simple without too much doubling or filling in a every nook and cranny tend to translate much better and are easier to get loud. The top guys that are mastering top commercial mixes are geniuses. Like I said, we are not hiring those guys.

So make your mixes simple and more representative of what the band actually does with some simple modern day production touches and they will tend to sound a lot more competitive ironically.

Think of that moment when you hear for instance a Target commercial and some tune comes on with very simple, yet cutting edge, instrumentation. All of a sudden it jumps out of your TV speakers.

The same can hold true for your self produced CD. Go simpler and as a result more powerful. That will allow you to master louder without getting that smear so indicative of a self produced CD.

[Yer Blues]

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3shiftgtr wrote:

 

If you are, cool....make some copies and download cards, and get to work.  If not, cool....look at your first project as a vanity project!  Just print enough to use as promo copies and vanity copies. If you are in a 4 piece band, maybe 200? Everyone gets 25 copies, and the other 100 are for promo, and don't worry about recoup.

 

 

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I think it is basically a vanity project for the bandleader.  Ultimately, he has final say and there's some things that don't really suite my taste musically.   But hey... it's going to happen.   

In general, I'm definitely glad I am involved in this and it has been a good experience.  As time goes on I get less excited about it.  I definitely think gigs would help get me more excited, but as he said from the start this is not a bar/pub band thing.  He made that clear.  I just didn't think I would miss that aspect of it as much as I do... but I do.

Like I said, it was a good experience... but I would rather invest my time in something that gigs more and practices less vs. something that practices a lot and so far hasn't played out.  I really don't see any reason I couldn't do both, but I would just need to take a step back from this for a month or two to help get the second thing off the ground... unless I could find something already past the start up phase.

 

[SLScott86]

Define "bar." Pretty much every venue you'll play, including the one where you're likely to open for your first national, is probably a bar.

[Yer Blues]

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SLScott86 wrote:

Define "bar." Pretty much every venue you'll play, including the one where you're likely to open for your first national, is probably a bar.

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I agree with you.  In this area, there are 1-2 bigger venues.  If you go another 1.5-2 hours you get to a major city, but there would be more, and possibly better, bands competing for the gigs.

There are arts festival type things that look for cheap entertainment and I think those would be good opportunities.    But, given our environment, I don't see how if you want to play out you can get around playing these places.  Once the recording is done we will see what happens, but I wouldn't be shocked if this project never plays out.  

 

 

[SLScott86]

I think you have a pretty good sense then of how the original music scene operates. It is possible to get a national support slot for your first gig- I've seen it happen. But generally speaking, if it isn't a bar, then there is most likely no local support. Festivals are hit or miss. If they do their own booking, you'd have a shot. If they consult someone more entrenched in the music scene to book, then you're probably out of luck. He might be fine living with that. But a someone else's non-gigging studio project would be my personal hell.

[Yer Blues]

LOL... I wouldn't call it a personal hell.  Haha.   There are plenty of positives..... I had to think differently about how I play, I've had the opportunity to incorporate a variety of influences that didn't fit in previous situations, I am learning about the album making process and cost involved, I got to play some cool covers early on with people actually capable of playing them, I have been exposed to new music, etc, etc.    

[SLScott86]

He doesn't disagree. He's saying you can get affordable small runs with just about all of those things. I don't want to say "Kunaki" again, but "Kunaki."

[Yer Blues]

I think everyone is an agreement on the professional route vs. cdr route.  It's pretty easy to come up with $200-300 split a couple ways.

[Yer Blues]

Good discussion so far.  Now I've got a follow on question.  After working on this stuff for 5-6 months I am getting sick of playing it.  I think lack of gigs is a huge factor.  Any cover band I played with obviously played gigs and would add new material from time to time... it wasn't the same 8-12 songs.  Is this common?  Or do you guys think it's more of a result of not playing the material out?

I think once we are finished I need to step back from the situation for awhile and try to get back with a cover band or something.  Hopefully the band leader understands.   

[Iamthesky]

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Yer Blues wrote:

 

Good discussion so far.  Now I've got a follow on question.  After working on this stuff for 5-6 months I am getting sick of playing it.  I think lack of gigs is a huge factor.

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A band that doesn't play out for 6 months is suspiciously close to being a band that never will.

Well, OK, Fleetwood Mac spent two years on Tusk without playing out, but I doubt your band is rolling in Rumours-like success.

And yes, playing out is in my experience what is needed to keep the material from becoming stale.

[MrKnobs]

 

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Yer Blues wrote:

 

 

Good discussion so far.  Now I've got a follow on question.  After working on this stuff for 5-6 months I am getting sick of playing it.  I think lack of gigs is a huge factor.  Any cover band I played with obviously played gigs and would add new material from time to time... it wasn't the same 8-12 songs.  Is this common?  Or do you guys think it's more of a result of not playing the material out?

 

 

I think once we are finished I need to step back from the situation for awhile and try to get back with a cover band or something.  Hopefully the band leader understands.   

 

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Whether you're in an original band or a cover band playing the same songs will get stale.   In a cover band, the solution is to learn some new hit tunes (or at least songs your crowd will like).  In an original band you must keep writing.  Your older songs will evolve so greatly as you gig them that you might eventually want to record new versions of them, or just do a live album.  Songs are living things, they need to breathe and grow.  Every member of the band will put his or her stamp on them as you gig, and that's to be encouraged, not forbidden. 

 

"Hey!  That's not what's on the record!" *

 

"Yeah, I know!!!"

 

If  you've been to see famous acts and hear all the people shouting for their old stuff while the band tries to play their new stuff you'll understand.  I'm sure Gotye is already very sick of "Somebody That I Used To Know," but guess what?  That's tough {censored} as they'll have to keep playing it the rest of their career.

 

So the answer is: keep writing and freshen up the old songs constantly.   Once you have enough tuneage put some on the shelf for a while (for me it takes about a year) and when you come back to them they feel pretty fresh again. 

 

It's really, really important for an original band to build a repertoire.  The deeper your song catalog is, the better.  It gives you choices of what to play each night, frees you from playing the same damn 10 tunes in the same boring order.

 

You may or may not want to add some covers (depending on everyone's deeply held religious-like beliefs on this matter) to fill out your set until you have (a) enough originals and (b) a big enough following to accept all originals.   If you DO choose to add originals, it's probably a good idea to impose your band's style on them to "make them your own." If your players suck, this will happen automatically as it actually requires a lot of skill to exactly copy someone else's song.

 

Terry D.

 

* Note that whereas this is a good thing, it also creates a problem.  When you change members,  you can't just give them the CD and say learn this.  You have to also give them notes on how things have changed.  Better still, give them a live recording to learn.

[SLScott86]

@Knobs

My wife was doing photography for a venue when Framing Hanley came through. They had a big hit with a cover of Lil Wayne's "Lollipop." At the end of their main set, the crowd didn't chant their name. They chanted "Lollipop." They didn't play it. It was super painful to witness.